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Hughes
10th November 2006, 15:49
Although I've seen Katsuse sense´ a couple of times (and even train under him at an old Iaido seminar, lucky me :p ), I've never seen Suio ryu naginatajutsu and so am very curious about it.

Especially because I heard that its curriculum encomprised "solo" kata. It would be pretty exceptionnal amongst naginatajutsu ryu, no? Or have you guys heard of/seen other ryu having such?
Has anybody seen it practiced, who could give some thoughts about it?

Does the Suio Ryu naginatajutsu have the same characteristic as the rest of the curriculum, that is the waza can be paired at will?

Thanks you for contributing to my useless curiosity!

Kusarigama
11th November 2006, 18:15
For information on Suio Ryu Iai Kenpo in Europe, please visit the following website:

http://dojo.stjean.free.fr/iaijo/suioryu.html

For information on Suio Ryu Iai Kenpo in the United States, please visit the following website:

http://www.suioryu-usa.org/

Hughes
13th November 2006, 06:44
I did a review before posting, and checked them already. Their purpose is naturally not to be specific about naginata-jutsu, hence my questions. Thank you for giving them.

Kusarigama
13th November 2006, 12:40
Some portions from the article "Classical Warrior Traditions of Japan: Part 6
Suio Ryu", written by Antony Cundy, a member of Suio Ryu Iai Kenpo. It appeared in Kendo World, Vol. 2 No.2 in 2003


"To advance his studies further Yoichizaemon went on his first Musha Shugyo a traveling form of trial by combat in which warriors would voyage to different areas to test their martial skills against those of other traditions. He traveled to such places as Omine, Togakure, Ontake, Katsuragi and Tateyama. It was during this excursion that he met Sohei, warrior monks from Mt. Hiei who were fleeing the wrath of Oda Nobunaga, from whom Yoichizaemon learnt a system of battlefield naginata."


"In addition to this central iai portion of the system there are 9 techniques of Kogusoku, (grappling performed from standing), 12 Wakizashi techniques performed from seiza, 18 Kenpo kata, 16 Omote and Ura jo versus ken forms and a further 10 Oku kata, as well as a set of 6 highly advanced jo techniques called Muso Gaeshi. There are also 3 tanto-dori (lit: knife taking) kata, 5 tanjo (short staff) kata and 10 jo versus jo kata, 9 Omote and Ura naginata versus sword kata, 9 Omote and Ura naginata versus naginata kata and a series of 3 remarkable solo naginata sequences referred to as the Yasen Okubi Kata, encompassing techniques designed to unhorse opposing cavalry."

Hughes
21st November 2006, 06:12
Thanks a lot for the informations. For thoses interested, I've been led to Youtube, with the search word "suiouryu" one can find some of them on videos.

Nathan Scott
27th November 2006, 21:14
9 Omote and Ura naginata versus naginata kata

Hmmm, that's very unusual as well. The only naginata vs. naginata kata I've heard of is the Zen Nichi Kata (Zen Nihon Naginata no Kata) of Atarashii Naginata. I understand the main reason this kata was designed nagi-vs-nagi is because the ANJF felt that teaching additional weapons (and requiring the purchase/carry of such) to be outside the scope of what they wanted to do with the art.

Is the Suio-ryu ai-naginata kata really designed for attack/defense against other naginata-ka? Considering that half of the main naginata kata are ai-naginata, there must be some combative context for the ryu placing such an emphasis on this (or influence from AJNF?)...

Regards,

DDATFUS
27th November 2006, 22:05
Nathan, I'm pretty sure that Toda-ha Buko Ryu also has a set of naginata vs. naginata kata. Here is a link to a video of Diane Skoss performing ai naginata of Buko Ryu:
http://www.furyu.com/onlinearticles/todaha1.html

Somewhere, I've read some article that mentioned that these forms were fairly rare amongst naginata schools, and that Toda-ha Buko Ryu is one of the only koryu to emphasize this (at least at the beginner levels), but I can't remember where I came across that. Probably something written by Miek Skoss or Ellis Amdur.

Kusarigama
27th November 2006, 22:55
Is the Suio-ryu ai-naginata kata really designed for attack/defense against other naginata-ka? Considering that half of the main naginata kata are ai-naginata, there must be some combative context for the ryu placing such an emphasis on this (or influence from AJNF?)...

Regards,

Please see the 4th picture on this Web page:

http://www2.wbs.ne.jp/~nck/suiou/suiougihou.htm

Also, please see the quotes in my earlier post.

Brian Stokes
27th November 2006, 23:01
Hi Hughes,

If you have not already done so please visit:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ErS1m1hF34w.

There you will see Antony Cundy performing some of the solo naginata kata of the school. From what I have been told these are designed to be used against mounted horsemen.

Brian Stokes
Suio Ryu of Iai Kenpo«
San Diego, CA

Hughes
28th November 2006, 07:07
Hi Brian,

Yes, I've seen them. Very interesting.

regards,