Something we can all agree on.

[Shinobi Winds]

ok ok how bout this. i think we as ninpo practitioners should come together and boycott the bookstore that carry Ashida Kim. I'm sick of seeing this guy pervert this art. I have a great pic of him i would love to post but i can't figure out how to put it on here. i guess i'm stuck in the past when it comes to this computer stuff . :p

[niten ninja]

Why? He gets people interested, and people who quote him on forums are always fun to help/mess with. In anycase I like Amazon's service. No you can't win... ;)

[DrewS]

Why? He gets people interested, and people who quote him on forums are always fun to help/mess with. In anycase I like Amazon's service. No you can't win... ;)

In addition, Amazon looks to be the only place I can find Kiba Koshiro's book Kukishin Ryu Bujutsu without having to import the Japanese one and end up translating it.

My economic benefits outweigh what ever type of damage Ashida's followers may do because of his texts. Now, if one wants a bone to pick with the Ashida Kim factions, help me re-write the Ninja Wiki...

[niten ninja]

I wouldn't bother to be honest, too much hard work, too many people using History and Tradition as if it were absolute truth and too many people using other dubious historians.

[Jason Chambers]

Lance,

How about you make a productive post?

[Shinobi Winds]

Hey at least I'm trying. Why don't you start something !!! Let's go we're waiting.

[Jason Chambers]

I have and will again... now Shhhh!

[Shinobi Winds]

see it's people like who who hide behind this "ninpo" name badge, and think you can get away with anything. It's you that give ninpo a bad name. You're an elitist, and there's no room for eliteist in ninpo!

[Jason Chambers]

You're an elitist, and there's no room for eliteist in ninpo!

Now that's a first... LOL!

I humbly submit to your opinion....

[Shinobi Winds]

Change is inevitable. Growth is optional.

[MWDAndy]

Lance raised an interesting point which I'd like to add an experience of my own to.

A few years ago I was in a local martial arts shop. I was just browsing, killing time and chatting to the owner. I pointed to his book shelves, particularly at the masses of Ashida Kim books in comparison to the small quantity of decent books on Ninjutsu. He was fully aware of how crappy these books are and that they are nothing to do with Ninjutsu. However he stocked them in such large quantities simply because he sold them by the cartload. The real Ninjutsu books were very poor sellers in his experience and so he only stocked a handful. So while Lance's idea of boycotting sellers who stock Ashida Kim's books may have some tiny moral victory, it is ultimately doomed to failure because they seem to sell a damn sight more freqently than the real deal. It's all down to economics.

It's also a sobering thought that the general public is more inclined to buy Ashida Kim books than decent books.....

[niten ninja]

Change is inevitable. Growth is optional.

How very relevant.

[Cufaol]

The general public has never been known for its wisdom hasn't it. I consider it a good thing. Just imagine thousand of fools learning ninpo/ninjutsu, then using it in what they think is everyone's best interest...Asgard forbid!!!!



C.

[Aaron Snyder]

I’ve noticed that the general public does not "get" ninjutsu/ninpo. When someone new to the art picks up a book on ninjutsu and flips through the pages, they want to see where is tells you how to kill someone in one punch, how to vanish with a cloud of smoke, or how to flip off a roof. Instant gratification is what they seek. Most people could care less about the clouded history and tradition. This art is still misunderstood, and will remain "underground" to most people. In a way it is good that most people read the "mind control" books, and get this distorted version of what a true ninja is. History repeats itself, and those who know the truth will have the advantage.

[Lockfield]

boycotting ashida kim will not change public perception of ninjutsu.

take a look at japan:

ninja museums,

ninja pop culture,

team ninja (creators of DOA),

flame of recca,

NARUTO!

et al...


this is what the public sees and would like to have. that is why when someone presents something that is like that perception, the masses gobble it up.

the best we can do is keep the art alive. how many years did it took for us humans to accept the earth is not flat? from copernicus to galileo to magellan, a bunch believed that so when the time came they proved that what they believed in is right all along.

hatsumi-sensei changed some, but not all. for over a decade he traveled to show his art, but only a few got it. the public believes what it wants to believe in...

[niten ninja]

I’ve noticed that the general public does not "get" ninjutsu/ninpo.

I don't think many of our own peolpe "get" it. Every MA forum I've gone on, almost, has ended in me arguing with another X-kan member who has a taken "History and tradition" as truth.

[Shinobi Winds]

I don't think many of our own peolpe "get" it. Every MA forum I've gone on, almost, has ended in me arguing with another X-kan member who has a taken "History and tradition" as truth.

How right you are. I think it's great to know tradition, but we must evolve.

[niten ninja]

No, "History and Tradition" is a book, and it's history section is responsible for a huge amount of misinformation. I should have been more specific.

[Rukku San]

I agree if i asked most people to name a ninja description they'd say a small japanese person wearing all black with hood a straight edged sword on there back running around killing samruai becuase they feel like such terms spring to mind as the american website realultimatepower -_- how depressing but yeh no one can really be sure whats true and not well thats my guess ^^

[Rukku San]

I agree if i asked most people to name a ninja description they'd say a small japanese person wearing all black with hood a straight edged sword on there back running around killing samruai becuase they feel like such terms spring to mind as the american website realultimatepower -_- how depressing but yeh no one can really be sure whats true and not, well thats my guess anyway ^^ to answer lockfields post

[Threeboy]

We need Ashida Kim, he weeds out the bad students :)

[niten ninja]

I think that's a bit harsh on people who may not know any better.

[tweety]

I think that's a bit harsh on people who may not know any better.


I never understand this 'not know any better' argument. At some point people need to take responsibility for their own actions. On the other side of the coin, instructors need to stop thinking it's their responsibility to hold everyone's hand.

I'd rather train with the sort of person who can figure it out for themselves.

I trained for 8 or so years in bull(ahem) fake 'karate' arts before I found my current teacher. I figured it out. I've also noticed that people who trained with very skilled teachers from the beginning with no previous experience tended to not appreciate and therefore undervalue their training.

Everyone will find the teacher they need/deserve.

I've also noticed that teachers that are 'selfishly' only concerned about their own training tend to be very good and have students who tend to learn very quickly with great skill. While teachers who are overly concerned with their students, not so much....

[niten ninja]

I never understand this 'not know any better' argument. At some point people need to take responsibility for their own actions. On the other side of the coin, instructors need to stop thinking it's their responsibility to hold everyone's hand.

At some point yes, but if people start off in martial arts, how are they supposed to know what's reliable and what's not?

[tweety]

At some point yes, but if people start off in martial arts, how are they supposed to know what's reliable and what's not?


Certainly not from trusting some 'authority'. That is, afterall, what gets everyone into the bind in the first place. Rather than having an argument about the best art to study, the question gets moved one step up (or down for you computer guys) to become: Whose authority should I accept? From there, if you like, you can push it further to become: On what basis should I accept or reject a specific authority?

At some point you have to make a personal decision.

How do you gain the perspective or knowledge to make that decision?

I don't know. I do, however, think that if you are sincere you will eventually learn what you need to know. If you always rely on the authority of others, well... then you just have to get lucky and happen to show up to the right class.

[Trevor Johnson]

Something we can all agree on...

we don't all agree.

[drizzt777]

LOL, very true.

Then again that's one beautiful thing about human beings, we can all agree to disagree.

[ElfTengu]

Actually there is one reason why Ashida Kim's books should not be on sale and that is because Christmas is coming and 'thoughtful' loved ones will be looking for suitable presents for us 'ninja nuts'.

(And no, fellow Brits, Ninja Nuts are not a type of biscuit).

[Trevor Johnson]

Actually there is one reason why Ashida Kim's books should not be on sale and that is because Christmas is coming and 'thoughtful' loved ones will be looking for suitable presents for us 'ninja nuts'.

(And no, fellow Brits, Ninja Nuts are not a type of biscuit).

I personally think that the thoughtful gift for a martial artist this holiday is a pair of nunchuckers (http://www.mcphee.com/items/11580.html).

And I thought ninja nuts involved "monkey steals a peach."

[saru1968]

And I thought ninja nuts involved "monkey steals a peach."


I thought Monkey ate all the ripe peaches...

[Trevor Johnson]

I thought Monkey ate all the ripe peaches...

My EYES! The goggles do NOTHING!!!

[ElfTengu]

Standing on the beaches.....