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View Full Version : Bugei vs. Nosyuiaido



Hiding Crow
20th December 2000, 03:55
To all that train in sword arts,

When drooling over all that Bugei.com has to offer, I can easily go over to Nosyuiaido.com, and drool some more. There seems to be quite a ambiguous decision as to where to acquire shinken from.

To people that own shinken from either of these companies, I would appreciate your feedback regarding the pros and cons of Howard Clark's blades vs. Seki City's blades.

I hope to use this discussion in part to make my decision/purchase.

Much Appreciated

Julian Straub
Bujinkan Kageyama Dojo
Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu Iaido
Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu

Toyamadude
20th December 2000, 11:48
Have you checked out the shinken available from East Coast Martial Arts ????? http://www.ECMAS.com or 1-800-407-1592

Really Great Shinken imported from Japan... Excellent blades...

Tom Smyth

Dan Harden
20th December 2000, 13:15
Nosy....offers non folded, oil quenched (lousy hamon) blades that are made in china but...BUT!! they are fitted by Nosy. They offer some of the best fit up work around, maybe even THE best fit up work around. They also offer real shinken, (tamahagane steel) by top notch smiths, big bucks to buy, but you wind up with a greater potential for an appreciating asset.
Plus they will really try to make you happy.

Bugie offers folded steel blades of a superior steel (Swedish power steel) to tamahagane. They will hold and edge longer, and the hamon are superior due to there being quenched in water. The overall grind lines are not as good as a Nosy. Their fittings are not as good as nosy, but the "overall" appearence is better due to the color and grain of the steel as revealed by acid etched polishing, and the chioce of the water quenched hamon. They are more than adaquate for use in Tameshigiri and the low price is ridiculous :). The blades are true performers. Maybe even top performers for the money. Don’t look for an appreciating asset. That won't happen with any American or Chinese made weapon regardless of superior or inferior manufacture. They also offer Japanese or American made shinken.
They will also try really hard to make you happy.

East Coast supplies sells forged non-folded Swedish steel blades I have not seen the blades but they appear to be water quenched. Due to their maunfacture they will probably prove to be one of the best performing blades out there as well, particularly for the money. It remains to be seen if their aesthetics are better due to the Japanese manufacture I do not know the Rockwell ratings so I am speculating.
Fit and finish unknown.

Howard makes very fine blades Japanese style or otherwise (he makes hunting and bowie knives etc). The American smiths who work in the style produce better weapons due to better materials. However, they may or may not capture the "form" correctly. Functionally their Hamon are fine. But! when it comes to aesthetics their Hamon are “less than” compared to the Japanese smiths. Although I do know of one smith who had a blade on display at a show in California that stopped Yoshindo Yoshuhara in his tracks. He went nuts over the controlled Notare choji Hamon. Five trips back throughout the day and he asked who the maker was. I was told he was floored when the smith was revealed to be am American.
If it were the old days of using weapons and I were faced with the modern solutions, I would take an American or Chen made blade any day of the week. They will outperform the outdated (read “slave to tradition”) manufacturing processes of the Japanese smiths.

What would really be nice would be to dump the bureaucratic strictures of the NBTHK on their collective arses and free the Japanese smiths to join their smithing contemporaries. Then, I believe, the tables would turn and the Japanese smiths would be producing the top shelf performers.

hope this helps
Dan






[Edited by Dan Harden on 12-28-2000 at 09:36 PM]

Joss
20th December 2000, 16:50
Originally posted by Dan Harden
I do know of one smith who had a blade on display at a show in California that stopped Yoshindo Yoshuhara in his tracks. He went nuts over the controlled Notare choji Hamon. Five trips back throughout the day and he asked who the maker was. I was told he was floored when the smith was revealed to be am American.
[Edited by Dan Harden on 12-20-2000 at 07:33 AM]

Who was that smith?

Also, I'll add that you won't get any hada on the low end Paul Chen swords, as well as on the Howard Clark 1086 blades, as those are not folded.

JD

Cady Goldfield
20th December 2000, 16:59
Originally posted by Joss

Originally posted by Dan Harden
I do know of one smith who had a blade on display at a show in California that stopped Yoshindo Yoshuhara in his tracks. He went nuts over the controlled Notare choji Hamon. Five trips back throughout the day and he asked who the maker was. I was told he was floored when the smith was revealed to be am American.
[Edited by Dan Harden on 12-20-2000 at 07:33 AM]

Who was that smith?

Also, I'll add that you won't get any hada on the low end Paul Chen swords, as well as on the Howard Clark 1086 blades, as those are not folded.

JD

Joss, Dan was too modest to name the smith. :)

Cady

Joss
20th December 2000, 17:10
I'm missing something... He was too modest to name the smith - because the smith was himself, Dan Harden?

JD

Cady Goldfield
20th December 2000, 17:15
Originally posted by Joss
I'm missing something... He was too modest to name the smith - because the smith was himself, Dan Harden?

JD

Ay. That he be.

Dan Harden
20th December 2000, 18:15
I left out the identity because it was not germain to the post. Who cares who it was. The point that was being made was that it was an American, THE American is unimportant.

Dan

Cady Goldfield
20th December 2000, 18:18
Originally posted by Dan Harden
I left out the identity because it was not germain to the post. Who cares who it was. The point that was being made was that it was an American, THE American is unimportant.

Dan

Oh, Pthpt!
:laugh:

Hiding Crow
21st December 2000, 03:16
Thank you all for your feedback. I hope to learn more as this thread unravells! :smilejapa

Julian Straub

Nsherrard
21st December 2000, 08:05
I'm a long time Nosyu customer (five years), and I have always been very impressed by their blades and fittings. Even their cheapest iaito have superb fittings, and the variety in choice of blades, fittings, designs, etc., is unmatched. Although the water vs oil argument rages on, I have never noticed a crappy looking hamon on their steel iaito. I don't have as much experience with Bugei blades, but I have seen some nice ones. I must take issue, however, with the very lengthy tsuka. This may be appropriate for a few styles (and I'm not trying to start a ryu war here), but they seem far to long for many kenjutsu schools. I love the Nosyu stuff, and their level of selection and service really is top-notch.

Nathan Sherrard

Kevin H.
22nd December 2000, 00:41
Bugei offers the widest range of swords available anywhere. This includes 13 different styles of long swords, both tachi and katana. Five different steels to choose from. Tsuka lengths from 9" to 16" in the semi-custom Wave style available with or without bo-hi. And virtually any choice of style and length in the 3 types of custom swords. In the standard swords you can choose tsuka lengths from 11" to 15" in 8 different swords styles. This is a far cry from just offering swords with long tsuka.

Kevin

Gordon Smith
1st January 2001, 00:24
I love Nosyu work. When I got my sword from them, I ordered it stock off their website. You start with your choice in length, and then can choose a sword based on fittings and heft. They are more than happy to custom-make a sword for you, though that will take a bit more time. I've been very happy with mine.

Now if only I can get my act together to make up the skills I've lost in my move and job shifting...

-G-