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VladTheEmailer
1st December 2006, 16:40
I was wondering whether anyone had come across a Club organised as I am going to describe; and what your views of it were.

The dojo would be organised in a similar manner to some churches... with the main club members as 'congregation' and the instructor(s) as 'pastor' and the dojo as the 'church'. The club would be not-for-profit have a controlling commitee made up of members within the club and handle the day to day running of the organisation and dojo. The senior instructor is 'hired' the controlling committee in the same way a pastor may be 'called' to a church. Interviews take place, interviewees instruct sample classes and discuss their compensation requirements, if any.
There would be bylaws giving the club the ability to remove an instructor if extreme situations arose that required it.

My feeling is this could foster a good sense of community.... its our club rather than his/her club. The members would be comfortable in donating (say) equipment or books etc. They would know where their fees are going and be comfortable that they set to an appropriate level not just to finance Sensei's new Mercedes or something. They would also be comfortable knowing that should something happen that stops the senior instructor from teaching, the club can stay in existence until a replacement is found.
The instructor(s) would be relieved of the burden of the majority of the miscellaneous things that crop up during the day-to-day operations and can concentrate on actual instruction.

Again, I'm curious whether I'm the only person that thinks this'd be workable. What would you think if you came across a club like this? If you are a qualified instructor, would you ever consider taking a position such as this?

Thanks in advance for any comments.
---------------------------------------------
David Tooke

VladTheEmailer
1st December 2006, 18:14
I feel I should point out that most of my dealings have been with clubs with a 'personality' senior instructor/sensei in complete charge. So forgive me if the organisation I have described is less novel than, out of ignorance, I believe.

Prince Loeffler
1st December 2006, 18:57
One problem:

Too many chiefs not too many indians ! Sooner or later you will come across problems when all the "Chiefs" begins to differ in their philosophy in how to handle the Dojo. Ask youself, what happens when you crossed that bridge ?

Well, give it a try and let us know how it turns out.

Neil Yamamoto
1st December 2006, 19:10
I've seen this set up numerous times. Most of the time it's called a co-op. It can work but it depends on what the group wants out of training.

Unfortunately, in all the cases I can think of, they managed to gather in one place some of the most physically inept people I've ever seen. What it was effective at was putting together most of the passive aggressive people who you would not want in a dojo together in one place.

In any group, even the set up you describe, there has to a single strong leadership role, tempered by good advice by others in the group. The goal you describe trying to achieve with this can be done but focus on what the should be important for any martial arts, the actual training. But there must be a clear concise goal of the purpose of why the group is training.

For example, Let's say you have in the group:
Someone who wants the training to be self exploration and discovery.
Another person who wants more emphasis on philosophy.
Another who wants self defense.
Another who wants to preserve the art and it's history.
Another who has goals of being a 'master' someday.
Another who has a history of abuse and is trying the martial arts as therapy.
And numerous others who view it as socialization and exercise, and a chance to go out for food and drinks after.

This is a recipe for disaster as far as training goes. Don't think this can happen? I've seen this pretty much in four different schools just here in Seattle in aikido, karate, taiji.

And I've left out problems from affiliations and politics that can bring into the picture.

Yes, it should be about training, but what you are decribing can be achieved in any dojo/kwoon/dojang where the head guy simply doesn't have his head up his bxtt about his own importance and gives a damn about the students.

VladTheEmailer
1st December 2006, 19:39
I do understand what you are saying.

My thought, using the church analogy, was though that the spiritual (aka training) leadership came from the instructor, whereas the commitee handled the more mundane aspects. While it would be appropriate for a committee member to say (for example) "I think we need to be more oriented towards self-defense", it would be appropriate for the senior instructor to say "no." The organisation would have mechanisms in the bylaws that you couldn't oust an instructor without a significant reason, if it was because he wasn't a strong leader he probably wouldn't have been picked in the first place.

Again, for those qualified instructors, what are you feelings about being approached by such an organisation? What controls would you want in place?

Ideally, I think I'm probably after is what most people want... a healthy training environment without politics or ego's intruding.

(I realise that the 'without politics or ego's' part kind of scuppers my church analogy. :) )

Prince Loeffler
2nd December 2006, 06:37
I do understand what you are saying.

My thought, using the church analogy, was though that the spiritual (aka training) leadership came from the instructor, whereas the commitee handled the more mundane aspects. While it would be appropriate for a committee member to say (for example) "I think we need to be more oriented towards self-defense", it would be appropriate for the senior instructor to say "no." The organisation would have mechanisms in the bylaws that you couldn't oust an instructor without a significant reason, if it was because he wasn't a strong leader he probably wouldn't have been picked in the first place.

Again, for those qualified instructors, what are you feelings about being approached by such an organisation? What controls would you want in place?

Ideally, I think I'm probably after is what most people want... a healthy training environment without politics or ego's intruding.

(I realise that the 'without politics or ego's' part kind of scuppers my church analogy. :) )

Politics will always be present regardless how big or small your dojo is.

Dan Keding
3rd December 2006, 16:30
Neighbors,

I think that humans are political animals. We are different from each other in our wants and needs and therefore are always in a state of conflict or compromise - each vital components to a political scene. I doubt very much if there is any organization be it a dojo or a church or any group of people that does not have its political side.

Who determines who is going to be in this ideal dojo and who is not? I'm not sure but as a public not for profit I doubt you can be that exclusive. Also what safe guards will you have to allow dissent and diversity? Factions will come to life, that's the nature of any group of people.

Will this organization be able to pay enough money for a good instructor to be hired? If there is none in your area it means relocating and that means the position better be monetarily attractive. Also how much latitude will the head instructor have? Will he/she constantly be looking over their shoulder to see if the Board is breathing down their necks or watching every move and decision? Very difficult position to be in - ask any public school teacher, especially with new mandatory testing.

The variables seem to me to be very difficult. I think Vlad that with any venture like this it will mean a considerable amount of thought, planning, and paper work - every thing must be down on paper to insure everyone's position on just about every issue. Good luck and I vote for keeping out scum bags that question the possibility of your idea. :)

Take care,

Nyuck3X
6th December 2006, 16:09
This is just a typical corporate structure. Whether it works or not is
up to you. There are good corporations and then there is Enron.
What makes a successful corporation work is a board that share the
same goals, morals, and enthusiasm. Unfortunatly, what makes a successful
corporation is not always in line with the ideal of a perfect dojo (ie. money,
streamlining and people pleasing).

Those who need to earn money to pay for the function of having a dojo
will always find themselves balancing greed and integrity. Those who
are succussful at balancing the two would be my ideal and what I am
striving for.

warmystc
15th December 2006, 20:45
I am just a student myself, but I would like to give my end on your idea. As a businessman myself, I can say, I have never heard of a format as your want to organize as. I think the idea is very fresh and can serve your community in positive ways. I like that the membership will have some input. Most martial art schools only look at the profit side of the business and forget the true reason a school would exist. I have seen many schools come and go due to greed and melicious intent for their fellow human beings.

I would say, look at the neighborhood you want to school to be in. Ask questions as to how the community can be served and see what interest their would be. From a business standpoint, this is the first steps. I hope I have contributed positively to your proposal.

pbpv
19th December 2006, 19:19
I am in a board of a non-profit organization that aims to teach dancing. Similar idea for martial arts is very valid and good. For that to take frution lots of things need to be done.
1. Get a lawyer and create an non-profit organization with a definite vision. i.e. Teach Judo/Karate in your city.

2. See if you can get grants from state and other funding from donors. Any organization requires money to run.

3. I think the rule is people who draw full time money from teaching that martial arts needs to state it be member of the board. It may be bad for the board if the person pushes their own agenda.

4. Get a strong iron clad bylaws.

5. Add some protection against who can run for the board. I know this is tricky, the last thing you want is to accumulate some nest egg for the organization and some chump joins with his students, wins the elections and takes the money. The bylaws could be changed at 2/3rds majority.

6. As someone mentions ego will clash, If your bylaws and rules are strong you can mitigate this problem in non-biased way. Check out Roberts Rules. You cannot prevent people from getting pissed off and leaving.

7. Charge membership. To cover service you are providing.

8. Possibly get insurance to protect the organization against law suits on injury, harrasment etc.

9. Get an org logo and dojo name, the last thing you want is the instructor walking away with the dojo name.

10. Even a non-profit org needs to pay sales taxes etc for any sales like t-shirts, gi etc, something to be aware of. Usually non-profit orgs may get tax discounts for purchases, please check with the local state tax laws.

11. Get volunteer groups, you would need people to cover
1. PR
2. Membership
3. Finance
4. Admin
5. Grant writers.
etc.

Paying for all the above areas would be very expensive as an organization.

Just to let you know things are much different from the bussiness side. You could get city, state grants if your mission matches with some part of the city's mission like teaching senior citizens to defend themself, public outreach programs on self defence and protection etc.

Good luck.