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Duncan B
5th January 2007, 22:18
I wonder if anyone out there could help me, I currently study JuJutsu and am interested in perhaps looking to take up Judo to aid my development however my experience of finding martial art instructors tells me that I could do with some knowledge of what I'm looking for to assist my BS detector. I have already searched this forum and found some helpful threads however I wondered if someone here could help me with the following questions:
1) In the UK are there a number of different Judo organisations (my research suggests yes) and if so which are close to the traditional Kodakan and which are highly sport orientated (and which are obviously frauds/highly dubious)?
2) Are there any obvious warning signs to look out for (over and above union jack gi's or anyone who calls themselves doctor but doesn't have a PhD)?

From personal experience I firmly believe that it is the quality of the instructor that really matters in martial arts rather than the name of the art. However I also know that quality organisations tend to breed quality instructors so any advice is greatfully received.

Many thanks

PeteBoyes
5th January 2007, 22:57
There are not just lots of organisations (in the dozens) but many coaches/trainers/senseis/teachers are members of multiple organisations.

The best suggestion is to get a list of the clubs local to you and work your way outwards geographically.

You may strike lucky and find something you like on your doorstep !

MarkF
6th January 2007, 08:24
There is always the London Budokwai if it is anywhere near you click here (http://www.budokwai.org).

You can also ask there. You are more likely to find a teacher through them or at their location. It has one of the richest histories of Judo outside Japan.

You may also try this link (http://www.kanosociety.org). Both are related with the Kano Society members linked into maintaining the judo of Jigoro Kano.

In either case you will get good references for a teacher you find about whom you have questions. I believe the BJA (British Judo Association) to be the national member of the International Judo Federation.

You all ready seem to know what to look for in an instructor and it is no different in judo. The main thing to watch for are very highly ranked people in judo who claim a dozen or more other MAs though 'why' is the lingering question in my head.

Do remember one thing: There has always been competition in judo so that, in itself does not make a bad club. Try two classes before signing after watching a class or two. As you've already surmised, the point is in the instructor and long term students. Speak with those students as well as the teacher.

If kata is your thing, there are a few good teachers in the UK (John Cornish is but one) but I do not know whether or not he is teaching regular classes anymore, but does teach aikido. He is highly graded in both and is also graded in karate. He does give seminars in Judo Kata some times (Budokwai).

There are others but they are not very young anymore (nor am I, come to think about it). One member who posts here by the nick "jonesy" is a kata examiner so check his messages. He may know just the right person for you as he resides there. Good chap and is knowledgeable.


Mark

hydestewart
6th January 2007, 13:17
Duncan,

I have been doing Judo in the UK for over 30 years and have also trained in Japan, including at the Kodokan and the Kokusai Budo Daigaku (IBU).

I feel that the key ingredient that distinguishes Kodokan Judo is vigorous randori. As people get older their bodies cannot take quite so much of that and they may spend more time on other aspects but any club that does not practice a fair amount of randori (standing and groundwork) is not doing what I would recognise as Kodokan Judo.

On the other hand Judo is designed to be suitable for a wide range of people from juniors to veterans and there is nothing wrong with recreational players doins as much or as little of whatever suits them as they like whether it is randori, uchikomi, kata or kuchi waza ( mouth techniques, ie talking about Judo!)

I belong to the BJA, which is the body sanctioned by the IJF to run the British team for the Olympics etc. It therefore has a slight bias towards contest but includes many coaches whose prime focus is on other aspects of judo, such as kata, self defence, exercise, fun etc.

Although I belong to the BJA I practice wherever and whenever I can and have practiced at non BJA clubs. Most of these have been as good as most BJA clubs. The fact that randori plays a large part in Judo means you don't get many fakes, they would get found out too quickly.

There is however one association that does no randori and has no contest requirement at all for grades. I would advise you to avoid that one. What they do is nothing like the Judo I know and love and certainly nothing like Judo as practiced in Japan.

If you would like to reply or PM me and tell me where you live and what sort of training you are looking for I may be able to assist.

Stewart Hyde

Jonesy
6th January 2007, 14:57
Duncan

From my knowledge I can list the following judo governing bodies in the UK, in no particular order of size or merit:

BJA – British Judo Association - including the WJA (for Wales), Judo Scotland and the NIJF (for Northern Ireland)
BJC - British Judo Council
BJC(MAC) - British Judo Council (Martial Arts Circle)
BJS - British Judo Society (mainly for juniors in the West of England)
Zen Judo Family (ZJF)
Bushido Za Zen
British Zen Judo Family Association (BZJFA)
Dai Nippon Buotkukai - International Division
Shin Judo
Kyushindo
Kenshindo Ryu
Traditional Judo UK
IBF - International Budo Federation
TBCI - Tokushima Budo Council International
BKJA - Bushi Karate Jitsu Association
IMAF - International Martial Arts Federation
Universal Budo Association


All of these judo associations are run by well intentioned people and have their own strengths and weaknesses. I am a member of more than one of the above listed bodies, have graded with more than one, and have trained with many of the others.

In terms of chosing which one is best for you, well if you want to seriously compete and have aspirations towards international representation, then the BJA is mandated ror you. Otherwise, you have more flexibility, and the biggest is not necessarily the best.

The IJF-affiliated BJA is pretty one-dimensional in its views and focuses its effort and resources almost solely on IJF competitive judo and the development of athletes who have the potential to medal at major championships. Medals at Olympic, World and European level are the sine quo non of the BJA since there is a direct correlation between medals and funding. The BJA applies the Pareto principle (80-20 rule) in spades. About 95% of the BJA’s resources is deployed to the benefit of the 5 % elite. Most of the BJA’s members are juniors and adult membership is in decline. However in recent months the BJA have recognised this as a problem and are taking some steps towards redressing the balance e.g. they now have a Technical Dan Grade Promotion scheme, and are paying a bit more respect towards kata.

All of the above listed judo associations contribute to British judo in their own way and many place greater emphasis on the 'traditional' or 'classical' aspects of judo in a way that the BJA does not e.g. importance of kata, no blue judogi etc. Some independent judo associations are run by individuals of highly questionable credentials who claim allegiance and lineage to long-dead Japanese sensei - i.e. Kenshiro Abbe. Sadly, sometimes these claims are fantasy. However, other independent judo associations are run by extremely talented and knowledgeable judoka who simply do not wish to be part of the BJA. The membership base of the independent judo associations is usually very small and certainly the degree of fragmentation (i.e. the shear number) of independent judo associations is certainly too high and a degree of consolidation would be good.

The BJA board is chaired by an ex-Olympian and the Board itself is composed of a collection of coaches (some world class, some not), referees, competition officials and club managers. The CEO of the BJA is not a judoka.

Multiple judo associations all of whom bring their own emphasis and seek to develop judo in their own way is a healthy thing since consumer choice is a very powerful force. It is clear that many independent judo associations offer British judoka a 'product' which they find attractive and so they chose it over the product offered by the BJA.

I lived and trained in Japan for 2 years, and nowhere in the UK really offers you an experience like the Kodokan or even machi-dojos elsewhere in Japan. The Budokwai in London comes close in terms of judo spirit, but not in terms of facilities, since the Kodokan is a 7-storey dedicated judo centre.
There should be room in judo for multiple judo associations - what is essential to ensure is safe, sound coaching methods, appropriate insurance and instructors that are appropriately 'checked out'. Remember, what is needed to learn judo is like motivated training partners, a good instructor and some mats – not one governing body or an other.

Drop me a PM/e-mail and let me know where you are in the UK and I will try and advise you further.

Llyr

PS - if you see my writing or published material elsewhere and see the "Dr" title - I do have a PhD from the University of Southampton!

Duncan B
9th January 2007, 22:51
Wow! Thanks for all of these responses. I will take some time to work my way through them and research my own geographical area a little more however these points are a greater starting point.

Many thanks to all of you that have replied and offered to help me further.

On a slightly tangental point, I always think that you can get the idea of the values associated with a martial art from the attitude of those that study it. I hope I represent my own organisations values as well as Pete Boyes, Mark F, Stewart Hyde and Dr Jones. By the way Llyr having a PhD makes you Ok in my book (if dead brainy).

Thanks again
Duncan

Simon Keegan
10th January 2007, 11:27
Whereabouts are you based, Duncan?