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Tim Mailloux
17th January 2007, 01:43
I was just visting one of my favorite sword porn sites that I haven't been to in a while and I ran across a series of pitures of the site owner Moses Bercerra polishing what has to be the biggest nihonto I have ever seen.

I could get a direct link to the picture, but there is a thumb nail that leads to the series of picture in the middle right side of the home page. Enjoy


http://www.nihontoantiques.com/

Maro
17th January 2007, 04:35
That is awesome!

The habaki is huge. I can't wait to see it mounted.

DDATFUS
17th January 2007, 04:49
I want it. Now.

Ken-Hawaii
17th January 2007, 06:48
Unless you're Hyaku's size, we probably couldn't lift it!! :o

Hyaku, how does that compare to your blade?

Brian Owens
17th January 2007, 13:11
That is one big sword! 40-inch nagasa!

I'd never thought of using wood for a habaki for shirasaya; interesting idea.

http://www.nihontoantiques.com/images/DSCN3133.JPG

Jonathan Tow
17th January 2007, 13:58
Nice blade! Wish I could afford one...

I'm guessing (and this is only a guess), that Hyaku-sensei is going to probably say that a 40" nagasa is....a little short.

Had a look at Hyaku's website and he uses a 45.4" monster.

Boggles the mind... :)


Best,

Jonathan Tow

pgsmith
17th January 2007, 17:25
Bob Elder has had one just like that in his shop for years. Big monster sword that is shaped just like that one, except that it's in full koshirae.

glad2bhere
17th January 2007, 18:27
Somebody help me out.

Am I to understand that what I am seeing is a functional weapon? Korean traditions have Ssang Soo To (lit. "two-handed sabres") and museum pieces are found, at times, to be as much as 6 feet (Eng) overall. Still I have yet to find anyone who would use such monsters for actual training or applications. Most people who use two-handed sabres use an item much closer to the size of a typical Japanese katana and often use such an item for ALL swordwork regardless of the original intended sword architecture, whether one-handed, two-handed or polearm.

Might this peiece be an exhibition piece, or, perhaps one that is intended as a temple icon? Thoughts?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

DDATFUS
17th January 2007, 18:43
Bruce, you might want to check hyoho.com (Hyakutake's website) for information on at least one extant ryu that uses this type of monste-- I mean, sword. Perhaps he could give you more details.

From the little I understand, swords of this size or greater were used on the battlefields of several nations. Just look at the German landsknecht (http://www.knightsedge.com/swords/german-landsknecht-flamberge-sword.htm), a weapon once feared on the battlefields of Europe. The landsknecht, as I understand it, was a weapon for shock-troops who charged the enemy pikes. You wanted a heavy weapon that could break through the pikes and create some havok in the enemy ranks, but once you got into the enemy ranks, you would drop the landsknecht and draw a short sword for the real close-in work. I think I've read somewhere (maybe Ellis Amdur's article on naginata/nagamaki?) that the Japanese also used shock-troops armed with this type of weapon to break up the enemy front line.

So, yes, possibly a functional weapon, but only for very specific functions. Just my opinion-- check my sig line for the going value.

Brian Owens
17th January 2007, 23:23
...Just look at the German landsknecht (http://www.knightsedge.com/swords/german-landsknecht-flamberge-sword.htm), a weapon once feared on the battlefields of Europe. The landsknecht, as I understand it, was a weapon for shock-troops who charged the enemy pikes.
Please excuse me, but I need to point out that the Landsknechte were not weapons, but people; German mercenaries.

Just as a katana or tachi is often called a "samurai sword" after the people who used them, so it appears that the site you linked to is calling a beidhänder (AKA zweihänder) a "Landsknecht sword."

Landsknecht means "land servant" (knecht is related to the English word knight).

HTH.

DDATFUS
18th January 2007, 00:09
Ah. Thanks much for the correction. For some reason I thought that the proper name for the sword and the proper name for the mercenaries was the same, with the mercenaries named after their distinctive sword or the sword after the mercenaries who carried it-- I'm not sure where I picked that idea up.

Brian Owens
18th January 2007, 03:55
...I thought that the proper name for the sword and the proper name for the mercenaries was the same...the sword after the mercenaries who carried it.
That's very possible, though it might be a modern colloquialism. I'm not sure. I just wanted to be sure that future readers knew that landsknechts were "knights" of a sort.

DDATFUS
18th January 2007, 04:20
thinking back on it, I suspect that I might have gotten this idea from a "Museum Replicas" catalog (I used to get them in the mail five or six years ago). After seeing their....unique....approach to traditional Japanese clothing (as shown in another thread) I am reluctant to take their word for it, even if I am remembering the add correctly.

Though I am curious; when you describe the Landsknechts as "knights," how literally do you mean that? I understood them to be footsoldiers, and I generally picture the European landholding class on horseback. Are they "knights" in the sense of an older meaning of the word, going back to a Germanic root, or were these mercenaries of the gently-born class? And am I completely imagining that they were footsoldiers?

Kayden
18th January 2007, 05:22
Landsknechtes: (good translation, Land Servent where did youfind it?). Where not knights but Swiss, French, Dutch, and German mercenaries working for German Kings, at the time Germany was nothing but a buch of losely affiliated kingdoms and often warred on one another. Landsknechtes were used as shock troops (breaking a Sheildwall or a Pike fence) Guradsmen, (protecting key elements on battlefeilds and marcing in Grande Parade, Pikemen, and standard bearers. A common and much practiced tactic was to break charges of calvery by using pikes, then march forward to engage the enemy pikes with their Flamberge (the name of the Big @$$ sword with the double ricosso the term has since been changed to mean the Wavy blade that it had and historians have changed the name of the sword so many times I don't know what it is currently called) leaving the armies of the king they were working for to clean up the battle feild and ensure that the Landsknechtes were not surrounded. The Landsknechtes would then close ranks with the now headless pikes and use the Flamberge like a polearm, then when they broke the Pikelines they would charge the infantry using a small sword called a Katsbalger (Sp?) and slowly work their way to the back of the enemy lines where they would reform and sandwhich the enemy between them and their employers.

They were also know to be very loyal and never flop back and forth between sides until a contract or campaign was over. They used bright colors to Identify themselves, Blue Yellow and Reds, I have heard many reasons for this, from they were rich and could afford the Dyes or they used patchwork to make their clothing just looted dead armies uniforms for clothing. I think the former makes more sense.

Brian Owens
18th January 2007, 05:24
Well, I said knights "of a sort." Professional soldiers, originally working for the Holy Roman Empire.

But lest I succumb to my habit of thread drift:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landsknecht

http://home.znet.com/savaskan/germans/

Brian Owens
18th January 2007, 05:40
...Am I to understand that what I am seeing is a functional weapon?
Possibly, or a replica of one.

Very large swords were known to be used in mass engagements, and went by names such as odachi, nodachi, and choken.

They possesed some of the characteristics of a regular sword, and some of the characteristics of a polearm, allowing a degree of flexibility in use to the skilled exponent.

A modern analogy might be a .50 caliber machine gun compared to a standard assault rifle.

HTH.

hyaku
30th January 2007, 03:11
Unless you're Hyaku's size, we probably couldn't lift it!! :o

Hyaku, how does that compare to your blade?

Looks a lot shorter but has a good width. Balance is the main thing. Just guessing but maybe that one is a bit light in the kensaki.

I am getting a few elbow joint pains right now. Swinging heavy stuff too much is not a good thing.