PDA

View Full Version : the essence



sheb
30th January 2007, 19:18
what do you think is the essence (whatever this means) of your martial art (and perhaps martial arts in general)?

trevorg
31st January 2007, 22:56
Essence perhaps means the core, or taking it further the meaning of what you are doing and where it will lead you.

In my case, not very far as far as karate is concerned, but the core teachings of my style are truth and reality which by definition lead the student along a path of self improvement in life as well as ma. Therefore my goal is to try and lead a good life for my family and loved ones, and at my work to be realistic and truthful. As far as my progress in karate is concerned, I just do the best I can.

Osu
Trevor

sheb
1st February 2007, 11:50
Essence perhaps means the core, or taking it further the meaning of what you are doing and where it will lead you.... yes.

My question goes in these directions:

basic principle of your martial art or
the core or
the most impressing "thing" or
What is your martial art for you/in your view? or
In which way your martial art has influenced/changed you and because of what?


I heard someone saying that the "essence" for him is serenity. A statement I like - yours also.

Walker
1st February 2007, 18:38
For the aikido I practice and Shindo Yoshin ryu -- kill the opponent as directly and efficiently as possible given the environment: a historical Japanese milieu with edged weapons and possible multiple adversaries.

It would surprise me that "the essence" of most budo would differ significantly. Most differences would be philosophical about how best to accomplish said killing.

Joseph Svinth
2nd February 2007, 01:42
For some systems, the essence appears, at least to outsiders, to scream, "Point!" every time your technique misses, and "You can't do that!" every time you get hit.

Ways to better market the product seem to occupy much time and interest, too.

elder999
2nd February 2007, 03:45
For some systems, the essence appears, at least to outsiders, to scream, "Point!" every time your technique misses, and "You can't do that!" every time you get hit.


And for others, just to get home safe everyday......

MikeWilliams
2nd February 2007, 10:31
what do you think is the essence (whatever this means) of your martial art

The stinky thumb of doom. :D

On a more serious note, for me it's the unique combination of physical exertion and mental strategy (the old "human chess match" cliche). That's for BJJ/submission wrestling/Judo, btw. That, and it's just pure fun.

trevorg
2nd February 2007, 11:11
... yes.

My question goes in these directions:

basic principle of your martial art or
the core or
the most impressing "thing" or
What is your martial art for you/in your view? or
In which way your martial art has influenced/changed you and because of what?


I heard someone saying that the "essence" for him is serenity. A statement I like - yours also.

OK, I try to practice Kyokushin, and the core is 'truth' and 'reality', and that is what I hope I achieve in my training, but that also flows through to my personal life.

'Essence' according to the dictionary means "the characteristic or intrisinsic feature of a thing which determines its identity". Therefore, truth and reality feature big time in my life.

It is not, as some have said, the objective of why you are training in a particular art, even if it is to get home safely which we all want to do. One of my teachers always stated that there has to be a purpose to training, or learning a new technique. Why is it being done ? Why are you training and to what end ? One example that reflects on part of my work life as a mediator is that I have found a degree of confidence and balance of understanding after many years of training that brings a new dimension to it, or when I am negotiating contracts.

In my personal life, I hope that others find me receptive, understanding, sensible and even worth listening to on occasions !

For me, its just one big continuing challenge that I know I will never surmount and which is why I am always in awe of those who are highly proficient, humble, and real people.

Osu
Trevor

SusanW
5th February 2007, 12:00
Essence - the true nature or core of an activity. The important bit that you can't change without changing the very nature of the activity. In a martial art there are certain things that you can change and adapt, but provided you don't tamper with the 'essence' of the art, then you are still practicing that art. I think it's important to know what the essence of your art is if you intend to modify it in any way or teach it to others. I think it's also important to know if your idea of what the essence is matches with the idea of your teachers and organisation!

I practice JKA style Shotokan. I think the essence is being the best you can be. Never giving up or taking the easy option. And once practiced until it becomes second nature I suppose that does ripple into the rest of your life. For the most part it's a good thing (the downside is perhaps a tendancy to dig in over things that really aren't worth the effort) :)

More specifically perhaps - shugyo (self-improvement through hard training). There's obviously more to it than that (including some physical attributes), but I can't quite put my finger on it. I like the shugyo approach of learning a small set of techniques and polishing them to perfection. Quality over quantity. I like the fact that there's little resistance to the idea of continuing to improve this small set of techniques throughout life. If nothing else, it's a huge motivation to stay fit and healthy in later life - very worthwhile when you see the number of people that spend the last 30 years or so of life as virtual cripples simply because they were never motivated to keep their bodies functioning properly.

There are equivelents to these things in Western sports, but somehow they don't appeal to me in the way that Japanese modern budo arts do. JKA Karate in particular has a unique forumla that just works for me. I love it. Kendo appeals too, but Aikido and Judo don't quite have the same magic.

It's hard to describe, but I think it's because karate and kendo are a little more 'brute force' - although I see the benefits of the 'go with the flow' approach in Aikido and Judo, it's just not satisfying or fun (to me).

Now my feeling is that this 'brute force' approach (meeting things head on) isn't really in keeping with most Eastern ideas. But it works for me. I love it.

Amir
5th February 2007, 12:51
Not sure if this is the kind of answer you are looking for, when you talk of essence:


Generating harmony in a chaotic non-harmonious situation (confrontation) while simultaneously tipping the situation to my favor, preferably without other involved people noticing it before time.

The means of achieving this in a physical situation, as we normally practice are many, from being soft (sensitive and responsive) to timing and technique. Yet the concept is worthy in many other situations as well


Amir

trevorg
5th February 2007, 14:57
How succinctly put of SusanW to say this: "For the most part it's a good thing (the downside is perhaps a tendancy to dig in over things that really aren't worth the effort)".

Sort of sums me up a bit unfortunately.

Osu
Trevor

Katsu!
7th February 2007, 23:02
Pointless question to even bother with. You know what the essence is even if you don't know how to put it in writing.

Its not something to try to analise in depth - as it covers so much.

Don't tire your head with these things - tire your body training instead.


Regards,

M.Miletic

trevorg
8th February 2007, 13:30
Pointless question to even bother with. You know what the essence is even if you don't know how to put it in writing.

Its not something to try to analise in depth - as it covers so much.

Don't tire your head with these things - tire your body training instead.


Regards,

M.Miletic

What's pointless about it ? In my style, Kyokushin, our founder's dojo kun includes "We will train our hearts and bodies for a firm, unshaking spirit".

I see you do goju and Kanryo Higoanna's dojo kun includes:
"Train your mind and body".

So its not all about having a good sweat, is it ?

osu
Trevor

Katsu!
9th February 2007, 00:53
What's pointless about it ? In my style, Kyokushin, our founder's dojo kun includes "We will train our hearts and bodies for a firm, unshaking spirit".

I see you do goju and Kanryo Higoanna's dojo kun includes:
"Train your mind and body".

So its not all about having a good sweat, is it ?

osu
Trevor

I am aware of the dojo kun of both our styles. And honestly they both basically go without saying. Anyone of some worth knows that thats what martial arts are about.

My comment hasnt got to do with that and i never said that its about sweat. I was refering to my beleif that too much questioning about things of this nature is a waste of time and even counter productive.

Ill give you an example to illustrate this point.(from my experience and others)

The western practicioner asks constantly 'why?' All i hear is 'how come the kick is this way? what is the point of that? tell me about the essence of karate? etc.

While training under a japanese instructor there is almost no questioning beyond 'am i doing this right?'

The western practicioner receives their answer and still doesnt do it right or trully get the point.

On the other hand the eastern way of intuitive learning and personal realisation embeds the knowledge so well that it is never forgotten or misunderstood.

So thats basically why i think questions of this nature are best left bottled up by those who understand and not thought about by those who dont, since they will realise it on their own one day.

Osu!

Marko Miletic

trevorg
9th February 2007, 10:17
Its a philosophical discussion, the kind you sometimes get on forums.


Osu
Trevor

sheb
12th February 2007, 10:26
Pointless question to even bother with. You know what the essence is even if you don't know how to put it in writing.

Its not something to try to analise in depth - as it covers so much.

Don't tire your head with these things - tire your body training instead.I never had the intention to analyse anything and I don't "tire my head with these things". I did just ask a question for a little nice conversation about something, one can't perhaps "put in writing". Because of this I also wrote:
essence (whatever this means)
So thats basically why i think questions of this nature are best left bottled up by those who understand and not thought about by those who dont, since they will realise it on their own one day.... and so I didn't ask to get "enlightened". It was just a try to talk ...

Are you one of "those who understand"?

john_lord_b3
16th February 2007, 09:20
what do you think is the essence (whatever this means) of your martial art (and perhaps martial arts in general)?

the essence of martial arts training: a good exercise to do in our spare time. To improve health and attitude, to have more friends and broaden our knowledge. Simply, to make us better human beings.

If your martial art is making you getting more than a fair share of injuries, getting you more enemies than friends and giving you a bad attitude, then there is something seriously wrong with your martial art training.

Katsu!
19th February 2007, 04:58
Honestly i don't know.

Regards,

Marko Miletic