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Ron Goninan
23rd December 2000, 04:06
I am very interested in hearing your thoughts regarding the kata Tensho. Does anyone have any real, substantial information on it's history?

I believe Tensho to be a very important if not all too often overlooked form. It seems to demonstrate many similarities to kata of the Kojo-Ryu tradition and even elements of the Feeding Crane and Whooping Crane styles.

What of it's connection to the Bubishi and Rokkishu? Does anyone have any information on the Rokkishu form? Perhaps Tensho is simply Miyagi Sensei's re-naming of Rokkishu?

Hope to hear from you all soon.

Regards,

Ron Goninan ~ Shinshii
Innovative & Progressive Traditionalist
Kokusai Okinawa Butoryu Gohokan
Australia

Paul Wollos
24th December 2000, 04:59
Hello Ron,

I'm instructor of Feeding Crane (Shihequan), which I studied sirectly from Head of the style in Taiwan, Mr. Lio, Chin-Long, as his "internal student".

I'm familiar with Tensho due to my previous involvement in Karate.

In Shihequan we have not really that Kata, but rather a set of hand movements, that closely resemble these used in Tensho. They are principles rather than actual techniques.

sincerely yours

Paul Wollos

AST
24th December 2000, 10:35
Would you care to expand upon those principles if possible.
I've always regarded Tensho as a form of Chi Kung (Qi Gong) and did not realise that it had similarities in the Crane styles.

I would appreciate your input.

Thanks

Ken Allgeier
24th December 2000, 17:23
Ron,

If you are serious about ' Tensho ' kata then i suggest you contact Glenard Grabow at http://www.okiadventures.com. Mr Grabow ,started his training in Goju Ryu as a Marine stationed in Okinawa in 1961 at the Shoreikan, his teacher was Masanobu Shinjo.I belive Mr Grabow trained the longest of any Marine stationed in Okinawa , that of five & a half years, and was stationed in Japan for one year and studed from Seikichi Toguchi, who was Masanobu Shinjo teacher.If you go to the " Bugeisha" post , then click on the webpage for Bugeisha, you can read one of Mr Grabow's articles.





ken allgeier

Paul Wollos
26th December 2000, 05:21
Hello,

Well, basically there are tactical principles withing movements of Shihequan, calles "8 Shapes of Hand".
I'm not authorized to go deep into the subject, so I just introduce it briefly:
movements upwards and downwards, inwards and outwards, throwing out (or "shooting out") and picking-up, relaxed vibration and stiffen power.
They are performed rather fast, using specific breathing in each two, so yes, they could be related to king of Chi-gong excercise, but the whole system of Shihequan (and perhaps other Southern Crane Styles) could be practiced as "dynamic" Chigong.

Master Lio however, stresses the importance and secretiveness of these principles. Most of Feeding Crane tactics are hidden within these movements.

Sorry for not being able to be more helpful.

sincerelly,

Paul Wollos

kusanku
26th December 2000, 22:06
Paul Wollos post:'Eight shapes of hand.'

Ah Ha.

Secret Jing patterns of feeding crane, secret no longer.

Thank you.:-)

Been wanting those for the longest time.

Now to integrate them into my own practice.

:D
Regards, Kusanku

Ron Goninan
27th December 2000, 00:41
Dear Mr.Wollos (Paul),

Thank you for your input. I am very interested in hearing more of your views on this subject and of your training. I have an Internet discussion forum open to discussion of matters regarding the Crane-Fist arts at:

http://pub32.ezboard.com/bwingsoftradition

I invite you (and others) to participate.

It is my understanding that Fujian Feeding Crane has a Quan with movements and concepts similar to Tensho only longer in it's performance known as Zhao He Quan Ba? Regardless, the movements seen within Tensho/Rokkishu are Crane-Fist kihon. I know of and have read of an older version of Tensho which has its last movements like a crane softly flapping/whipping it's wings in a type of double wing strike. Do you know anything of this?

Regards,

Ron Goninan



[Edited by Ron Goninan on 12-27-2000 at 05:56 PM]

Paul Wollos
27th December 2000, 04:16
Originally posted by kusanku

Ah Ha.

Secret Jing patterns of feeding crane, secret no longer.

Thank you.:-)

Been wanting those for the longest time.

Now to integrate them into my own practice.

:D
Regards, Kusanku [/B]

Oh yes, you see? Now no longer secret. Hope you use it well. Have fun.

Paul Wollos

kusanku
27th December 2000, 04:19
Paul Wolos says:
'Oh yes you see?'

Yes. Much.

'Hope you use it well.'

Hope I never have to.:-)

'have fun.'

Always do, you too.:-)

Seriously, one of the drills I do based on my teachers'instruction s also called eight hands, as I mentioned, and may well descend from the White crane stuff.

Or maybe not.
Kusanku

Paul Wollos
27th December 2000, 04:21
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ron Goninan
[B]Dear Mr.Wollos (Paul),


It is my understanding that Fujian Feeding Crane has a Quan with movements and concepts similar to Tensho only longer in it's performance known as Zhao He Quan Ba?

Dear Mr. Goninan,

Thank you for you invitation. We can continue this topic in your discussion board.

About the name "Zhao He...", sorry, no such a form in Feeding Crane. Another Crane School perhaps? I know nothing about other systems of Crane Fist, but Feeding Crane.

Thank you,

sincerely

Paul Wollos

Hank Irwin
1st January 2001, 03:31
Originally posted by Paul Wollos
Hello,

Well, basically there are tactical principles withing movements of Shihequan, calles "8 Shapes of Hand".
I'm not authorized to go deep into the subject, so I just introduce it briefly:
movements upwards and downwards, inwards and outwards, throwing out (or "shooting out") and picking-up, relaxed vibration and stiffen power.
They are performed rather fast, using specific breathing in each two, so yes, they could be related to king of Chi-gong excercise, but the whole system of Shihequan (and perhaps other Southern Crane Styles) could be practiced as "dynamic" Chigong.

Master Lio however, stresses the importance and secretiveness of these principles. Most of Feeding Crane tactics are hidden within these movements.

Sorry for not being able to be more helpful.

sincerelly,

Paul Wollos
That wouldn't be Happorren would it?

Paul Wollos
1st January 2001, 05:41
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hank Irwin
>>That wouldn't be Happorren would it?

Dear Mr.Hank Irwin,

I'm sorry, but I'm not familar with Happoren at all, so I cannot say anything about any / none possible connections.

I Feeding Crane it's not a form (Kata), but rather an excercise, practicing the movements similar to Tensho, but at the same time - quite different.
Tensho's hooking movements do not exist in Feeding Crane. However, movements upward-downward, outside-inside, the way of fingers' strike forward, and final round block, are quite similar.

Happy New Year!

Paul Wollos

kusanku
1st January 2001, 07:27
Happoren is the Okinawan pronunciation of a Chinese form that still exists in some crane styles and is called Ba Bu Lian or 'Eight Steps Continuously, something like that.

Never have seen that form. I hear that one Okinawan style, Toon-Ryu, of Juhatsu Kiyoda, retains that kata as well as Nepai Quan.

Pat McCarthy knows both of them, I don't.

Kusanku

Shorite
17th October 2003, 20:12
does anybody know what the word 'tensho' means. if its Japanese i presume the 'ten' means heaven, but what about the rest of it?

Iron Chef
17th October 2003, 20:29
Originally posted by Shorite
does anybody know what the word 'tensho' means.

yes.


Originally posted by Shorite
if its Japanese i presume the 'ten' means heaven, but what about the rest of it?

Nope. You can't just do that with the Japanese language. Way too many homophones. The language is very poor in terms of syllable content. Its worse than english.


Tensho basically means.

Rotating Palm or
Revolving Palm or
Turning Palm or
Rotating Hand or ..... something along those lines.

Gene Williams
17th October 2003, 22:04
Ed, I have recently trained in the "Feeding Possum" style and the "revolving tail" technique. Very impressive!:)

Shorite
17th October 2003, 23:37
Thanks Mr. Boyd.
Yeah sorry about the wrong Japanese, it all gets confusing after a while. I didn't finish skool in UK, then I start in US, while trying to learn Japanese. I'm scared to go back incase of a word/grammar/language mix-up.