Strength Vs. Juho

[Ewok]

When you first come across a new technique it can take a while to work out what you are supposed to be doing, and how to do it right. Applying strength or resisting while still learning makes it hard to be able to practice, but is essential later in order to "fine-tune" your technique.

What would be your hot tips for subtle things that make juho work?

I would say use kagite, learn what natural weaknesses the body has, and push that elbow forward!

[JL.]

Gassho!

You've already summed it up pretty well, I think. :)
I'd add Shu, Ha, Ri to the list: I find it helpful to first just try and copy what is shown before starting to think about it too much, because one needs to get the basic movement into memory. After that one can start to try and understand the technique.
It is also helpful to start very slowly with hardly any power before trying to go faster of for Kosha to block the technique.

Kesshu,
______ Jan.

[Michael_Smith]

Gassho

It's important that your training partner attacks you correctly e.g. if its a push, they should push not just hold! It's only fair to defender that the attack is realistic as possible, with consideration and control.

kesshu

[Rob Gassin]

Three more tips to make juho work

1. keep the movements flowing, do not stop at kagite, make it impercertible to the casual observer.

2. Be flexible, that is, be ready to change your technique depending on your partner's response.

3. your partner being on tip toes and his leading shoulder position are the best clues to him being off balance.

[luar]

I would say use kagite, learn what natural weaknesses the body has, and push that elbow forward!

This has my vote and if I can say it another way it would be learn how to break your opponent's balance. I would also add that it is highly important that one learn the principle of using the body to generate torque. It's the only way the weaker can overcome the stronger.

[Tripitaka of AA]

I am reminded that the advice one gives to a three-month beginner is often different, nay contradictory to the advice given to a two-year ikkyu, and different again from the words that Arai Sensei might give to a San-dan.

So the tips above, might seem a little confusing or even contradictory, unless they specify to whom thy are being addressed (in terms of experience, etc.).

[paul browne]

Just to add my penny worth here
I agree with the above but I think that once the general idea of the juho movement is learned it is essential that the kenshi understand the 'intent' of the attack. This goes beyond just push or pull.
Each kogeki will have an intended technique of their own to apply (not grabbing so Uke can do theirs). The most obvious early example is ude-juji (a specific and effective attack) being defended against by kote nuki/gyaku gote. This one is easy as both techniques fall in the same part of the syllabus. It gets a little muddier later when the attacks are, for example, ude gyaku dori or hamma nage or waki gatame or gyaku tembin . Then when collar or sleeve grabs are introduced and can be initial entrances to morote seionage, koshi waza and ashi barai, as well as the usual holding so you can knock his block off:)
The thing is these other attacks/waza are kempo hokei, just not in the general syllabus so you have to practice them seperately. The problem is the sensei tends to forget to teach them in the rush (wrong word but I think you'll get my meaning) to get to the orthodox hokei. They are also effective techniques in there own right so they are definately worth practicing.
This would have been less of a problem in the days when Shorinji Kempo was founded as Judo was a feature of mainstream Japanese education....and anyone interested in Shorinji would likely have been attracted to Judo at school, and so been familiar with the intent behind these grabs.
A couple of useful resources for studying these attacks, and hopefully improving your Juho are some of a series of books titled 'Judo Masterclass Techniques' especially one titled 'Grips' by Neil Adams (among other things this one shows the reason for our tchniques of Sode Guchi Dori/Maki)

Another good resource (and free!!) is this website
http://www.judoinfo.com/
This has images of most of the types of attack our juho waza are designed to defend against.

Any way, just my (long winded) thoughts on the topic. (and don't judge the sense of the above by my ropey juho skills, they're still valid thoughts:))
Paul

[Ewok]

On the back of Paul's comment, how important (or how useful a tool) do you think "juho randori" is as a part of training?

At kyu level I feel its a good way of learning how to use the juho you know - think on your feet and if your partner changes their attacks by adding resistance it makes you think. At dan level you should be creative as the kogeki by adding serious resistance (such as attempting judo throws or follow through with attacks such as grasping a wrist and trying to throw them rather than going along for a ride), but keeping it within safe limits and not snapping each others wrists off :p

[Richard Codling]

Another good resource (and free!!) is this website
http://www.judoinfo.com/
This has images of most of the types of attack our juho waza are designed to defend against.

That's quite a cool resource, almost the Judo equivalent of the Kenseikai website.

It's interesting to see the similarities between techniques as well as different interpretations of phrases such as Tsubame geashi!

[paul browne]

Hi Leon,
The two 'Sono Giho to Oshi' DVD's have good Randori clips both Goho and Juho. The Juho on the first DVD is really interesting as its quite sen-no-sen and uses a very effective kintekki geri to set up the waza. The second DVD has a couple of really good 'blink and you miss them' shifts from goho to juho during randori with one being sort of tai-no-sen shitauke zuke to kote nage (very close in and practical) and the other tembin dori.

Richard,
I know tsubame gaeshi is also used to describe a kendo technique, I think its the swooping circular movement that each version has that attracts the name. I think the term Nami Gaeshi is used in Judo, Kendo and (definately) in Karate to describe techniques that are nothing like ours. Funny how fighters of whatever nation get all poetic when describing ways of injuring their fellow man.:)
Glad you liked the website, I think stuff like that is usefulto the study of Shorinji.

Paul

[dirk.bruere]

What would be your hot tips for subtle things that make juho work?



In a word - atemi.
When you've just struck someone in the eye or kicked them in the groin you will find that their focus has moved a long way from what you're doing with their wrist. Of course, if some kyu grade does resist (because one does not really 'do' maeuchi) then a fair slap to the face instead has an educational effect:-)

Dirk

[David Dunn]

In a word - atemi.
When you've just struck someone in the eye or kicked them in the groin you will find that their focus has moved a long way from what you're doing with their wrist. Of course, if some kyu grade does resist (because one does not really 'do' maeuchi) then a fair slap to the face instead has an educational effect:-)

Dirk

Mori Sensei used to say that juho that relied on atemi wasn't real juho yet

:)

[JL.]

Gassho!


Mori Sensei used to say that juho that relied on atemi wasn't real juho yet

:)Doesn't mean it's not very useful and effective. :)

Kesshu,
______ Jan.

[Random]

Good shuho is so important.
Use your oponents strength momentum against them when possible

Wheel or lever depending on the technique Very effective tools for increasing force without increasing work.

Shu Ha RI is so Important for the teacher and the student to make the technique work.

Keep your technique close to your body

Kiai and atemi are of equal importance

My mantra when teaching lower belts is drop your butt and straighten your back.