Kevin Pell

[luar]

For several years I occasionally comes across this martial artist and seen some of his books. He always lists SK on his resume including on his website. Does anybody have any further info about how far he went and why he broke off?

[paul browne]

Hi Raul,
Kevin Pell trained at Harrow Branch (North West London) about 20 years ago.
For those from that era he was a friend of Colin Haig. I don't know what grade he got to (I don't think it was higher than 2nd kyu) but I think he did attend the 30th Anniversary Taikai in Japan (as did Colin also as a kyu grade)
I remember that Kevin was a very skilled Jujutsuka (not traditional Koryu jujutsu, rather the British Goshin jutsu type popular in the UK since about 1900) and a very large, strong, pleasant and respectful bloke. I'm not sure he ever really intended to make Shorinji Kempo a proper study, rather dipping is toe in to see what it is like. As far as I can tell he always speaks (writes) respectfully, even fondly, about Shorinji Kempo.
I can't say I knew him well but i did likehim.
Hope this helps:)
Paul

[luar]

He does appear to be a very respectful and likable fellow. This is his website (http://www.ishinryu.com/ins_kevin_pell.shtml). You gotta love his hombu dojo especially the moat.

[Steve Williams]

As Paul said, I also remember him (a little, he was a grade or two higher than me when I started training) I also seem to remember him not attaining dan grade (1st or 2nd kyu?).

The question about him came up a few years ago here, and at that time I had a couple of e-mail conversations with Kevin Pell.
As has been said he seems to be a friendly and likeable guy, with a lot of varied martial arts experience.
I don't know why he gave up, why not go to his website and ask him if it is that much of interest to you? People leave for many reasons, in this case I don't remember it being as a dislike/whatever of shorinjikempo or its techniques, some people just feel the need for change.......
He has always been respectful of ShorinjiKempo and its techniques/teachings.

[Tripitaka of AA]

Hi Raul
If you've searched on E-Budo for previous threads about Kevin, you'll see that I have contributed to those. I can only echo Paul and Steve. I was on the trip to the Taikai that Kevin attended. Kevin and Colin had video duties on the day of the Taikai and anyone who has seen the tape will remember their conversations that come over the soundtrack during the Embu... They were Green belts at the time as I recall.

[Ewok]

He does appear to be a very respectful and likable fellow. This is his website (http://www.ishinryu.com/ins_kevin_pell.shtml). You gotta love his hombu dojo especially the moat.

A hombu with a moat is a wonderful thing. Must say it looks very nice, and the winter photo with the snow just looks amazing.

[luar]

Hi Raul
If you've searched on E-Budo for previous threads about Kevin, you'll see that I have contributed to those. I can only echo Paul and Steve. I was on the trip to the Taikai that Kevin attended. Kevin and Colin had video duties on the day of the Taikai and anyone who has seen the tape will remember their conversations that come over the soundtrack during the Embu... They were Green belts at the time as I recall.

A search on "Kevin Pell" only resulted this thread and nothing else. I suppose last year's E-Budo crash corrupted the database.

[Tripitaka of AA]

He got dragged into a thread about Steve Grayston, in Bad Budo. He has taken a fair amount of criticism for his use of the title "Soke". His website was taken to task in the past ... I haven't seen it lately.

[bu-kusa]

Id be interested in what people think of the demonstrated techniques, (remember I said technique not the person himself.) If you look at the first animation on the page, whereby the attacker is griping the lapel, then defender then blocks, counterstrikes, and performs an ‘unusual’ double leg takedown, performs an elbow to the stomach (good tactic,), then overreaches to hit a knife hand to the side of the neck. There seems to be two basic ‘gaps’ in the waza whereby someone with a rudimentary knowledge of judo etc could shake off the takedown attempt, or apply Jujigatame (the basic BJJ version from Do-Jime /guard positions would be ideal for this.)
Does anyone else see this?

[Tripitaka of AA]

Those are his "jujutsu" techniques and do not look anything like Shorinji Kempo movements. Some of our members are widely versed and may wish to offer a comment, but really, those animated GIFs are a poor visual on which to comment. In some cases, I've seen step-by-steps like those done from posed still photographs and don't even approximate a true moving technique. I can't tell from those GIFs anything other than it probably hurts to take an elbow to the chest :(.

[paul browne]

It occured to me that those kenshi on foreign shores may not know what I meant by 'Old British Jiu-Jitsu' popular since about 1900so i've attached two links I think will help illustrate what I meant.

http://ejmas.com/jmanly/jmanlyframe.htm

This is an essay on edwardian self defence fromthe time (1901 I think)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08BqaSuEE_w

This is genuine film of such edwardian 'jiu jitsu' in action;)

Enjoy
Paul

[ScottUK]

Id be interested in what people think of the demonstrated techniques, (remember I said technique not the person himself.)I thought his juju was pretty solid. There seems to be a pretty good level across the board with his students. The animated GIFs don't really show the techniques well, IMHO.

Paul, cheers for the vid... :)

[Anders Pettersson]

I don't know Kevin Pell, nor have I ever met him, so he might be a nice guy and good at what he does, I can't tell.

But I do know that there have been some details about his time in Shorinjikempo published in interviews with him that is not correct. I think I have seen it mentioned on several places, but the one I could dig up right now is this one:
http://svartbelte.kampsport.no/artikkel.shtml?id=151

Det begynte med judo. Jeg trente det fra jeg var liten til midten av tjueårene. Deretter ble det Kyokushinkai-karate og Shorinji Kenpo, som jeg faktisk trente i det japanske hovedkvarteret på øya Shikoku. Jeg var der i to år.
Translation of this from Norwegian to English would be:
"It started with Judo. I practiced from I was young until the middle of my tweties. After that it was Kyokushinkai karate and Shorinji Kempo, that I actually practiced at the Japanese headquarters on the island Shikoku. I was there in two years."

This is not true, the part that states that he was there for two years, he has visited that is a fact but not for two years, (checked before with Hombu).
But I haven't seen it in recent published articles, so he probably don't say that anymore or made sure that he isn't wrongly quoted.

The other thing that don't make his org look to serious is thier lack of knowledge of basic Japanese,
The attached picture below is from a banner on his website. On most places the name of their style is in vertical text, but on this one it is horisontal, and obviously they don't know that "isshin" is two kanji, but rather seem to think it is one. :rolleyes:

/Anders

[Ade]

Dear All

Gassho

I took the liberty of inviting Sensei Kevin into this conversation these are his replies:

"Dear Adrian,

Thank you for brining this to my attention, I trained in Shorinji Kempo well over twenty years ago, I believe not long after Mizuno Sensei arrived in England, and remember with great affection Sensei talking to us in very basic broken English the philosophy behind Shorinji Kempo, at that time I was just training twice a week at the Stockwell dojo (London Judo Society) but later expanded my training to the dance works and the Hampstead Dojo as well as the opening of the (Then) new Harrow Dojo and one of my greatest disappointments at that time was missing Sensei’s wedding due to illness.

I also visited Honbu in the Eighties (early eighties I believe) which to this day is an experience I cherish, and still take great pleasure in viewing the 500 or so colour slides that I took during our trip; I have many, many happy memories of my training with Mizuno Sensei in those early days and have nothing but the greatest respect for him as my Sensei and for the art itself.

I only stopped training within Shorinji Kempo because my life was becoming very full with my study of the arts, at that time I was also deeply involved with my Judo and Ju-Jitsu which I had been studying since my very young childhood and reached a point where something had to give.

Please pass on my respects to anyone who remembers me from all those years ago and especially to Mizuno Sensei and his family.

With Honour and Respect,

Kevin Pell Hanshi M.G.R.Y."

To which I asked his permission to post on his behalf and asked that if he was ever in Hampshire that he visit us, his reply:

"Dear Adrian,

Thank you for your courteous reply to my email and please feel free to post my previous email, it is good to hear that the BSKF is doing well and obviously growing in size, I would imagine that many British Kenshi will be travelling to Honbu for the 60th anniversary, I envy them, I know how well Honbu looked after us all when I went in the early eighties.

Sensei, thank you for your kind invitation to visit you and your dojo, I will save your email and contact details and if ever I can make it up it would be my honour to come and visit you.

Likewise please except my most sincere invitation to come and visit me at my Honbu dojo, I would love to show you around my dojo, which sits within an acre of landscaped Japanese gardens and is my pride and joy, and maybe I could twist your arm to take my Honbu students for an evenings training which I know they would love and have a beer or three afterwards.

I look forward to meeting you in the future Sensei.

With Honour and Respect,

Kevin

Kevin Pell Hanshi M.G.R.Y.

Founder & Chief Instructor

Sekai Ishin Ryu Ju-Jitsu Renmei"

I think his answers speak volumes for good manners and I look forward to meeting him.

Kesshu

Ade

[bu-kusa]

Just a small note:

‘that Kevin was a very skilled Jujutsuka (not traditional Koryu jujutsu, rather the British Goshin jutsu type popular in the UK since about 1900) ‘


If you look at this link:

http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33012&highlight=wjjf

You will see that there is no link between that Ju-Jutsu and the ‘jiujitsu’ of Mr Pell / Robert Clarke.

[paul browne]

Bu-Kusa
Thanks for the correction.
I actually didn't expect a direct link between Barton-Wright and Kevin Pell, more a 'generic' one. The additional stuff was just a bit of levity:)
Edwardian jujutsu/self-defence manuals are a guilty pleasure of mine, no connection to my Shorinji Kempo study, just a fascination.
If anyones interested EJMAS has m,any fascinating articles on how to up-end footpads, sturdy beggars and na'er-do-gooders whilst wearing straw boaters, tweed and bicycle clips:)

As regards Kevin Pells correspondance with Ade, I think it's pretty well documented that Mizuno sensei came to the UK around 1974. I seem to recall Kevin as being a white or yellow belt when I started in June 1985 and he wouldn't have been at Hombu for more than a few days as he and Colin Haig travelled together and they were only in Japan for about three weeks maximum, including travel around. I suspect an enjoyable and influential event in his Budo life has expanded in his memory as to the time spent.
Paul

[Tripitaka of AA]

I suspect an enjoyable and influential event in his Budo life has expanded in his memory as to the time spent.
Paul

I was on that trip, and it expanded in my memory to the point where I've now spent 5 years and 2,500 posts writing about it :) :D

[paul browne]

I was on that trip, and it expanded in my memory to the point where I've now spent 5 years and 2,500 posts writing about it

And there's nothing wrong with that!!:)

[Ade]

Ladies and Gentlemen

Gassho

I am appalled by the fact that there is a Ju-Jitsu discussion going on hosted by Shorinji Kempo.

There are agendas here which shouldn't be tolerated.

I have no doubt that Kevin Pell is ex-Shorinji Kempo he has sent me a scanned copy of his BSKA card, it proves, categorically, his statement:

"I started training in October 1978 and received my membership card from Honbu dated 5th of March 1979."

It shows his Entr number as 360, mine's 430, what's yours?

His credentials have become cloudied and muddied by time and unfortunate association, this has been compounded by those with an agenda.

But hey, we all make mistakes.

So let's start asking some relevant questions, who's bu-kusa, what are his/her Shorinji Kempo credentials, why is he/she interfering on a Shorinji Kempo matter?

Old cop principal; don't just look at who the bullets are fired at, look for the shooter and ask why?

My intention is to visit Kevin and speak with him, perhaps bu-kusa cannot do similar or is his/her ju-jitsu not that good and they let their typing fight for them?

Anyway...back to Shorinji Kempo which is; apparently; what this forum is meant to be about.

Kesshu

[bu-kusa]

Hi there, I initially asked because I was interested in how close his system was to S kempo. I am interested for two reasons, one, I practise japanese arts which are often mistaken for those such as Mr Pells. Two
I have often recommend your style to people too far away from Genbukan Dojo. Im sorry if your quote of followers and leaders, doesnt apply to asking questions. Yours Paul Greaves.

[bu-kusa]

Just to further clarify the above post, I have asked about the S kempo view of the techniques, I specifically asked about them, not the person, I then clarified a common history error which i backed up with a link to a further eBudo thread. If I may ask, which post was disagreeable?

[Steve Williams]

I am appalled by the fact that there is a Ju-Jitsu discussion going on hosted by Shorinji Kempo.

Why? The discussion IS ShorinjiKempo related


There are agendas here which shouldn't be tolerated.
Very true........


I have no doubt that Kevin Pell is ex-Shorinji Kempo
i know it for a fact also, as I (and Paul) remember him.

It shows his Entry number as 360, mine's 430, what's yours?
Mine is 439, mr Brownes is 436.
My membership has been CONSTANT has yours?


His credentials have become cloudied and muddied by time and unfortunate association, this has been compounded by those with an agenda.
In what way? he does not make any wild claims/aspirations with regards to ShorinjiKempo.


But hey, we all make mistakes.
Yes we do, its if we learn from those mistakes then we can become better people...... if we make the same ones over and over, well........


So let's start asking some relevant questions, who's bu-kusa, what are his/her Shorinji Kempo credentials, why is he/she interfering on a Shorinji Kempo matter?
Does it matter if they are a ShorinjiKempo kenshi? as long as they conduct themselves with respect on this forum then I don't have any problem with what they may or may not practice.


My intention is to visit Kevin and speak with him
Good, why? maybe to swap war stories......


Anyway...back to Shorinji Kempo which is; apparently; what this forum is meant to be about.
Yes, and all things related to shorinjikempo.

[JL.]

Gassho!

I'm hereby invoking my absolutely official rights as hey-I'm-not-a-moderator-so-what? to ban all further inter-BSKF squabble and "who's the bigger XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX" from this forum. You might have noticed (yes, I'm pointing my finger at every single one of You, and yes, that's how many index fingers I have, scary ain't it?) that this forum has grown rather quiet in recent months and we all have some ideas as to the reasons for that. I might add that the Berlin Dojo has it's own forum now (two, actually, and yes, that is advertising for another forum and yes again, posts in English are very welcome) and that if the situation here doesn't get somewhat more Shorinjikempoish anytime soon You might find Yourself squabbling all alone and my congratulations on that, too.
/letting off steam

I might add that I sorely miss the place this used to be. :(

Respectfully and kesshu,
____________________ Jan.

[David Dunn]

this forum has grown rather quiet in recent months and we all have some ideas as to the reasons for that.

What do you think the reasons are Jan?

Personally, I can't post on here at work anymore, and in the very little spare time that I get I'm writing some open source software.

[Edit - ps, I can't really follow your forum, but I hope your alternative-to-the-UTS weekend is a great success. :)]

[Kari MakiKuutti]

It shows his Entr number as 360, mine's 430, what's yours?

351 ......

[Rob Gassin]

412 :rolleyes: :p :) :) :p :rolleyes:

[paul browne]

Just to clarify something in case it's not clear.

I hope the suggestion that there is a 'hidden agenda' isn't aimed at me (even as freindly fire) as I have absolutely no interest in what goes on in the world of ju-jutsu...other than historical.
A question was raised that I could answer, (trust me a rare event in my world).
I'd assumed Bu-Kusa was a kenshi although that wouldn't have changed my answer.
As regards Kevin Pell's history in Shorinji kempo I don't doubt anything he's told/shown Ade.
I'd only re-iterate that he was a low to mid kyu kenshi when I started at Harrow in June 85 (I joined the BSKF in August) and saw him intermittently over the next couple of years. I don't think I saw him after I reached Shodan (about 87 ish).
So no agenda's, conspiracies or neferious activites on my part:) clear?
I'm pretty sure I started all this saying I liked him!!
Paul
Incidently, how do you do those neat little qoute boxes, couldn't figure it out (bit of a luddite)

[Ade]

I hope your alternative-to-the-UTS weekend is a great success.

Firstly

At NO point ever has any Berlin visit been planned or organised as an alternative to a UTS.

Secondly

In his role as moderator Steve is usually dilligent and impartial.

I do not believe this to be true here.

I have had Kevin Pell on the phone this morning questioning how his memory of what Shorinji kempo used to be has changed to the level of vitriol expressed here.

Kevin was particularly upset and confused by the comments about "war stories" and felt the need to apologise to me for one of my federation's behaviour.

The reason I am visiting Kevin is because he has had the good grace to invite me, he has and offered overnight accomodation (and beer) for up to 25 of my kenshi on his honbu floor.

I am fascinated how as to how Kevin has managed in found an organisation with so many members and build a honbu, it is my intention to ask him how he has done so, I have no doubt that he will tell me, he strikes me as that kind of bloke..

In one of his e-mails Kevin states:

" Dear Adrian,

Thank you for your return email, your offer of beer sounds great (Now my wife's laughing!!) please do keep in touch and do make that visit to our Honbu dojo whenever you get the chance.

I read with interest the entry made that I had told an untruth about my time at Honbu, Sensei, I can assure you that I would never have stated that, I was at Honbu for 4 days along with everyone else and then a further two and a half weeks visiting other dojos and sightseeing as Paul Brown Sensei will no doubt be able to confirm.

Unfortunately I am quiet often misquoted, an occupational hazard I am
afraid, due largely to being interviewed around the world by journalists or
martial arts teachers who themselves have very little grasp of English, it
is a constant source of amusement to my wife and I along with my senior
friends in the martial arts world, the things that trickle back to me over
the years of what I am meant to have said, the grade that I am meant to
hold, the people I am meant to have graded and the numerous people that I am alleged to have planted on their backside because they had upset me! I
should be serving a virtual life sentence for assault :-)

I am more aware then most that when I open my mouth in public, here or
elsewhere in the world, that there will be people writing things down or
pushing microphones in to my face and am therefore very careful what I say,
politically or otherwise, I take great pride in all that I do and I would be
a fool to knowingly tell untruths.

Sensei, I am not sure how much you know about me but I hold the rank of 8th Dan in ju-jitsu, have just celebrated my 40th year in the martial arts and
run a very successful martial arts Renmei, probably one of the biggest in
the UK, sitting as the head of 13,500 students throughout the UK, Portugal,
Norway, Spain, Croatia and Switzerland, I have to date written my first
international publication, written a 32 page section on ju-jitsu for the
ultimate book of martial arts, appeared in over 400 martial art magazines
appeared on twenty three television programs, both at home and
internationally, as well as several pieces on Sky relating to my training of
close protection personal and special forces.

In short I guess what I am trying to say is that people watch me fairly
closely, and it would be very naive of me not to expect there to be more
then a few "green eyed monsters" out there who would like a slice of my cake
or beat themselves up by not understanding how I have achieved it and they
have not, the downside to all this Sensei is that when you are in my very
fortunate position, you attract trouble makers like a magnet.

When I read Paul Brown Sensei's entry I realised that he may have forgotten
just how long I had trained in Shorinji Kempo prior to his joining us at the
harrow dojo in 1985, (Over six years to be precise) I knew Mizuno Sensei had
not been over here that long before I joined, so I started digging, as I
tend to do when the reliability of my memory is in doubt!! And I have found
my original membership card along with all my study notes and my martial
arts diary which I kept religiously in those early years.

I started training in October 1978 and received my membership card from
Honbu dated 5th of March 1979, so I don't think my memory was so bad after
all thank God!!

I have attached my membership card for you to look at (And mock the youthful photo of me, along with my wife I hasten to add.)

In closing I would just like to thank you Sensei for your time and
understanding and for your kind words over the past week both in private
communication and with what you posted on e-Budo on my behalf and would you please be so kind as to pass on my respect and best wishes to Paul Brown sensei, I remember him well and he was always a very pleasant person.

With Honour and Respect,

Kevin

PS. Please feel free anytime to give a call at home..."

I have told Kevin to stop calling me Sensei but he still maintains utter politeness.

I am now embarrassed by a moderator and member of my organisation.

I would like to offer an apology on Steve's behalf I know he didn't mean to come across like that and that this is all a very silly misunderstanding.

And still bu-kusa stands outside firing in, (I found out he's got a boys name so I'm going to assume he's a man) practicing Tanemura-den Kobudo (A Japanese art in America....................hmmmmmmmmmmmm)

Divide and conquer........old ninja trick (like not facing up to your victim directly but getting others to do your work).........seems to be working very well here.

Give me leaders not followers...can't remember who said that probably the same bloke that said:

" I have no intention of encouraging fights, but you need to have enough courage to get in a fight. You need the power to act. If, moreover, you ignore the sufferings of others, then you are in real trouble.

In relations among people the most important thing is to know people who will render help when you need it and people who you would help when they need it. I'm sure you will agree that it's important to want to help. To say, "help me!" when you have a problem and then ignore your friend's problem when the time comes, that's not friendship. For one person cannot make a friendship. People who will cover for others when there's a problem; (our) Japan's problem is that we have too many people who can't do that."

I apologise if I haven't upset any of you.

Adrian.

[David Dunn]

At NO point ever has any Berlin visit been planned or organised as an alternative to a UTS.


I told you I couldn't follow it very well :)


practicing Tanemura-den Kobudo (A Japanese art in America....................hmmmmmmmmmmmm

I thought Southampton University Shorinji Kempo branch recently did a fundraiser with the same organisation?

[bu-kusa]

‘’ And still bu-kusa stands outside firing in, (I found out he's got a boys name so I'm going to assume he's a man) practicing Tanemura-den Kobudo (A Japanese art in America....................hmmmmmmmmmmmm)

Divide and conquer........old ninja trick (like not facing up to your victim directly but getting others to do your work).........seems to be working very well here. ‘’

Well my name is at the bottom of all my posts, and I’ve already mentioned the main art I’m studying, (as it is also in my profile.) I don’t know where you got the American bit from? I have no motivation apart from asking about one technique, which was different in tactic, and form, from the (limited) Koryu JuJutsu, Judo and Brazilian Jiujitsu, I have been exposed to. I had been thinking that it may have been sourced from Shorinji Kempo, henced why I asked on a Shorinji Kempo froum.

At no time did I mention anything derogatory about Mr Pell, the only times I mentioned anything about his training was to correct an assumption about the history of the WJJF style, and indeed quote someone else saying ‘that Kevin was a very skilled Jujutsuka’

If I made any factual errors, I would be most kind if I could be corrected, so that I could learn from this experience. Apart from that, this will be my last post on the subject.



My entire posts:

Id be interested in what people think of the demonstrated techniques, (remember I said technique not the person himself.) If you look at the first animation on the page, whereby the attacker is griping the lapel, then defender then blocks, counterstrikes, and performs an ‘unusual’ double leg takedown, performs an elbow to the stomach (good tactic,), then overreaches to hit a knife hand to the side of the neck. There seems to be two basic ‘gaps’ in the waza whereby someone with a rudimentary knowledge of judo etc could shake off the takedown attempt, or apply Jujigatame (the basic BJJ version from Do-Jime /guard positions would be ideal for this.)
Does anyone else see this?

Just a small note:

‘that Kevin was a very skilled Jujutsuka (not traditional Koryu jujutsu, rather the British Goshin jutsu type popular in the UK since about 1900) ‘


If you look at this link:

http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthr...&highlight=wjjf

You will see that there is no link between that Ju-Jutsu and the ‘jiujitsu’ of Mr Pell / Robert Clarke.
‘’

[Ade]

I thought Southampton University Shorinji Kempo branch recently did a fundraiser with the same organisation?

We did and I have to say it was one of the most interesting and welcoming cross-training days I've had in the last 20 years.

Which is why I am so surprised that someone from that organisation would be so condescending and intollerant towards others.

And this is my last post.

Ade

(Never one to not have the last word)

[Steve Malton]

I see this in a totally different way. I read Bu-kusa's first post as saying "I think this animation shows a gap in the technique. Do you think this a problem with the technique or with the animation?" Which is a perfectly reasonable question. And I read Steve's "war-stories" line as "Do you have any particular reason you want to meet Mr Pell, or do you just want to have a chat about how Shorinji Kempo was back when you both started?". Also a perfectly reasonable statement, and fairly light-hearted. Are you being a bit oversensitive here, Ade?

Also, you've torn me up before for requesting apologies on behalf of others. Perhaps if Steve believes he owes one, you should let him give it himself?

[sean dixie]

I'd love to reply but I'm busy packing for this years soon to be remembered as the second best UTS ever..... jammy bugger Tony just fluked a bunch of masters to teach us! :p

[Steve Williams]

In his role as moderator Steve is usually dilligent and impartial.
Always, not usually.


Kevin was particularly upset and confused by the comments about "war stories" and felt the need to apologise to me for one of my federation's behaviour.
Oh, come on Ade........


The reason I am visiting Kevin is because he has had the good grace to invite me, he has and offered overnight accomodation (and beer) for up to 25 of my kenshi on his honbu floor.
Did I (and Paul) not say that he was a "good bloke"??


I am now embarrassed by a moderator and member of my organisation.
Me...... Why??


I would like to offer an apology on Steve's behalf I know he didn't mean to come across like that and that this is all a very silly misunderstanding.
Don't apologise on my behalf, if there is an apology to give then I am quite capable (and perfectly happy) to give it myself, thank you.
It would seem that the silly misunderstanding has only been taken as a misunderstanding by you Ade, as has been made clear by SteveM and then lack of comment to it by everyone else (even the two Daves ;) )


I apologise if I haven't upset any of you.
Maybe you should try a little harder.......
























And, by the way, my tongue was very firmly in my cheek when I wrote that last line, in case it was not obvious......

[Tripitaka of AA]

One of the silliest threads I've seen in a long time...
and I've seen (created) some really bad ones lately :(




Time for my new favourite GIF

[paul browne]

Not sure why Steve was expected to apologise?
But

I'm Sorry.

Not sorry for anything I have written regarding the subject as everything I have written is factually correct. (I do regret a flippant comment in answer to the suggestion that there had been a two year training spell at Hombu, though this was not intended to reflect badly on anyone)

What I am sorry for is ever being naive enough to think you could answer a simple question on this forum without becoming embroiled in an argument.

I find myself being portrayed as having in some way criticised a man I haven't seen in 20 years and reading responses from that person suggesting I've managed to offend him.
So for the record.
1) I knew Kevin Pell twenty years ago in Harrow Branch
2) We were both low kyu grades
3) He was a very competent Jujustsuka
4) He was a nice guy and I liked him.
and finally,
5) In case anyone read the qoutes from Mr. Pell earlier, I'm not a sensei and haven't been for about 10 years.

I'd really hoped the forum had become a more positive place after last years mega negativity. I hadn't dreamed I'd actually start the rot!!
:(

Paul

[Rob Gassin]

Paul,

The negativity was certainly not from you.

From someone outside the fold and looking in, this is a flagrant case of misinterpretation of meaning from someone who always appears interpret posts in the most negative light possible.

I certainly did not see anything offensive about what you wrote and when you were flippant, i interpreted it as such.

I agree with those who think that negativity is the achilles heel of this forum. I do not believe that the apparent decrease in postings after last year's negative posts is a coincidence.

[Steve Williams]

Good comments (mostly)

I think this thread can now safely be put out of its misery.....