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Kolschey
25th May 2000, 06:14
Right now I am reading the book " Emotional Intelligence" I am only a quarter of the way through, but I find that there are some interesting insights. I also would recommend Lt. Col. Grossman's book " On Killing" for a serious study of the darker side of human nature. Colin Wilson's "Criminal History of Mankind" is another favorite.

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Krzysztof M. Mathews
" For I am the Cat who walks by himself, and all places are alike to me"
-Rudyard Kipling

Hans Bachmann
25th May 2000, 17:53
Does anyone know of any good books that cover the topic of human behavior and the subconcious mind?

Sochin
26th May 2000, 00:15
You may want to look at Inside the Criminal Mind by Stanton Samenow...

<A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0812910826/theboomerseniorc"><IMG SRC="http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0812910826.01.MZZZZZZZ.gif" border="0" alt="cover" hspace="3" vspace="3"></A>
Click on the picture for reviews and other books by Samenow.

As it says on the fly: "Long held myths defining the sources of and cures for are shattered in this groundbreaking book - "


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<A HREF="http://pub6.ezboard.com/btheseniorscommunity" TARGET=_blank>Ted Truscott,
The Fighting Old man</A>

CKohalyk
26th May 2000, 08:06
If you pick up Grossman's book, watch out. It's really interesting, but just be aware that the are a lot of well-argued opposing theories out there, just like any other *theory* on human behaviour.

Grossman is NOT the final word.

Neil Hawkins
26th May 2000, 08:58
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CKohalyk:
If you pick up Grossman's book, watch out. It's really interesting, but just be aware that the are a lot of well-argued opposing theories out there, just like any other *theory* on human behaviour.

Grossman is NOT the final word.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is an interesting field of study and the only contradictions I have heard are from people that have no conection to the military and are commenting on specifics such as the role of video games in de-sensitising the young. Many of these people have agendas that may not relate to the welfare of the individual.

I have not really heard of too many opposing theories to Grossmans work, I was under the impression that it was fairly well accepted. Could you please elaborate on these theories or provide references.

With regard to texts on behaviour as it relates to Martial Arts, Kim Taylor wrote a good paper entitled the "Pshcological Effects of Martial Arts Training", it's in two parts and should be available from his website, can't remember the address, but Joe will have it if he's around.

Regards

Neil


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The one thing that must be learnt, but cannot be taught is understanding.

[This message has been edited by Neil Hawkins (edited 05-26-2000).]

CKohalyk
26th May 2000, 11:16
I have not really heard of too many opposing theories to Grossmans work, I was under the impression that it was fairly well accepted. Could you please elaborate on these theories or provide references.


I am sorry my reply turned out so vague, but the truth of the matter is I am in Japan and the relevant references are on my computer back home. If you are willing to wait 2 months?...

Anyways, I am just trying to generate a bit of academic skepticism simply because when I first read (and soon after bought) Grossman's book it became MY bible. It was kind of a letdown when I started hearing other equally supported theories from the Hoplology people; and from a biologist friend who told me about primate behaviour research that was quite different from what Grossman states in his book.

I personally think the book is a great platform for many interesting ideas, and recommend it. But just don't turn it into your bible like I did.

-Apologies

CKohalyk

Hans Bachmann
26th May 2000, 14:43
Hi all,

I was more looking for books that explain various gestures or movements that individuals make to determine their state of mind and how by the way you iteract with them it effects their subconcious mind.

Does this book talk about this or does it more deal with the "why" a criminal does what he does?

Thanks,

Hans

Kolschey
26th May 2000, 16:20
It sounds to me like you are talking about Neuro-Linguistic Programming. I have seen a book on the subject titled "Frogs into Princes" but I have not yet had the opportunity to read it.

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Krzysztof M. Mathews
" For I am the Cat who walks by himself, and all places are alike to me"
-Rudyard Kipling

Sochin
26th May 2000, 17:58
Ahhh, the meaning of body language - rings a bell softly in the fog...very confusing subject when you go cross culture!

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<A HREF="http://pub6.ezboard.com/btheseniorscommunity" TARGET=_blank>Ted Truscott,
The Fighting Old man</A>

Walker
26th May 2000, 21:11
I think the Bandler and Grinder books are about the best in the NLP area - they started it all. “Frogs into Princes” is a good introduction as it is a seminar transcript format and covers a broad spectrum. I was introduced to the books by a social worker as a high schooler and she used a lot of the info in “The Structure of Language I and II” that covers underlying structures in language and is kind of the basis of the theory.
Also “ReFraming” deals with more of the hypnosis aspect - one of them says nothing is hypnotism and the other says that everything is.
NLP is interesting in that it ignores content in favor of structure so it may have application across languages, but would require testing to see if it held. It also works with behavior outside of language. It does hold the virtue of flexibility in that if something doesn’t work you try again and NLP provides a framework to guide your attempts at effecting change.
It is unclear to me how accepted this stuff is these days. A fad that has passed? Limited utility? Discredited? I don’t know - not in the field. I haven’t paid too much attention to this stuff lately, but nothing new has caught my eye.

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-DougWalker

[This message has been edited by Walker (edited 05-26-2000).]

Rennis
28th May 2000, 13:00
I'm by no means and kind of expert by I'd have to agree with some of the comments made on Grossman's book "On Killing". I liked it alot when I first read it, but I soon started hearing other views on the book in particular or its themes in general from various places. Some from some of my teachers (in college that is), others from the Hoplology people.

One book I can recommend as a counter point to Grossman is "War Before Civilization: The Myth of the Peaceful Savage" by Keeley, Lawrence H. New York: Oxford University Press, 1996. One interesting point this books makes is the trend in recent years by anthropologists and such to make out premodern societies to be mostly "peace loving tribes living together happily" until the big bad Europeans marched in and ruined everything. This rang especially true to me when I compared the two anthropology teachers I have had and found one to have basically always been stressing how there was little violence and no crime in small tribal societies, etc... While the other one was basically "that's a bunch of b.s.". At the time the happy hunter gather life of peace view point made sense (I didn't have anyother view points to go off of so...), but now it strikes me more as a sort of yearning for the ficitonal days of yore because life today isn't as great as it should be.

I do think Grossman's book has some good info in it, but his basic idea that human's were not biologically designed to kill or do violence with each other and today's violence is all the fault of recent deprogramming of human nature seems a bit naive (sp?) to me now. I think the popularity of Grossman's book is based more on the fact that it is very well written and easy to read, rather than any of its actual content. It reads well and thus it makes a very convincing argument to people who don't really have any knowledge of the subject and maybe won't be able to readily understand a more difficult work on the subject with more specialized language (basically people such as myself). Anyways, that's my opinion, for what little it is worth...
Rennis Buchner

Kolschey
28th May 2000, 15:10
Keeley's book sounds very interesting! I will have to look for it. Where I find Grossman's work to be strongest is his analysis of how people may be instructed to kill or commit violence. There was a very intesting article that I read several months ago. A journalist who had played various first person shooter games for several years was invited by Mr. Grossman to try shooting an actual firearm, which he had never done previously. Using a .22 and a .45, he was able to hit the target with considerable accuracy and consistent grouping. Mr. Grossman later informed him that certain recruits in the Army would demonstrate markedly high shooting proficiency without any history of previous live firearms use. They were, however, avid video game players.
While this is not conclusive, it certainly merits further study. Look at the difference between the Diallo case in New York and the Columbine shooting- the difference in marksmanship is rather disturbing.



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Krzysztof M. Mathews
" For I am the Cat who walks by himself, and all places are alike to me"
-Rudyard Kipling