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john_lord_b3
12th April 2007, 13:18
Dear Karate friends,

In these Katas:

Chatanyara Kushanku
Isshin-ryu Kusanku
Kushanku-Dai
Kushanku-Sho
Wado-ryu Kushanku
Wado-ryu Unsu
Shotokan Unsu
Shotokan Kanku Dai & Sho

There is a sequence where the practitioner drop down to the ground in a position like a 100 meters sprinter (rear leg very straight, front leg bent very deeply, both hands on the ground in 'push up' position).

What are your interpretations about this sequence? In Wado-ryu that I practice, one of the interpretation is to avoid a high attack and execute a single leg takedown.

shisochin#1
12th April 2007, 19:21
Dear Karate friends,

In these Katas:

Chatanyara Kushanku
Isshin-ryu Kusanku
Kushanku-Dai
Kushanku-Sho
Wado-ryu Kushanku
Wado-ryu Unsu
Shotokan Unsu
Shotokan Kanku Dai & Sho

There is a sequence where the practitioner drop down to the ground in a position like a 100 meters sprinter (rear leg very straight, front leg bent very deeply, both hands on the ground in 'push up' position).

What are your interpretations about this sequence? In Wado-ryu that I practice, one of the interpretation is to avoid a high attack and execute a single leg takedown.
I practice the bunaki the same way. as a takedown

GojuMaster
13th April 2007, 03:14
I don't practice this form, but I've seen many variations of it.

Some variations make me think of a reverse broom sweep.

But, what do I know...I'm just a Goju guy...(nod to Ed Boyd)


Dear Karate friends,

In these Katas:

Chatanyara Kushanku
Isshin-ryu Kusanku
Kushanku-Dai
Kushanku-Sho
Wado-ryu Kushanku
Wado-ryu Unsu
Shotokan Unsu
Shotokan Kanku Dai & Sho

There is a sequence where the practitioner drop down to the ground in a position like a 100 meters sprinter (rear leg very straight, front leg bent very deeply, both hands on the ground in 'push up' position).

What are your interpretations about this sequence? In Wado-ryu that I practice, one of the interpretation is to avoid a high attack and execute a single leg takedown.

Simon Keegan
13th April 2007, 08:37
That's a good bunkai. I also teach it as a choke. I know that's difficult to imagine so to save me explaining it have a look at figure 227 on this document,

http://ejmas.com/jnc/jncart_cptsmith_0401.htm

If you think of dropping the body down into that deep position the end result is similar.

mews
13th April 2007, 21:27
oh, I like! Thank you, Mr. Keegan!


mew

john_lord_b3
14th April 2007, 15:25
Thank you for the comments. Seems like we all agree that this can also be interpreted as a grappling technique. Another interpretation is a horse kick (ushiro geri but with both hands on the floor, to help keeping balance)

Chris McLean
14th April 2007, 22:08
I visualize it as a sprawl defending the double leg take down. Self defence before visualizing it as an attack. Single leg is also good. It could be both.
"Yin yang"

Simon Keegan
15th April 2007, 00:06
oh, I like! Thank you, Mr. Keegan!


mew

You're welcome. On a similar not look at figure 212 and imagine Heian/Pinan Yondan/Yodan's opening move.

For the double knife hand block gesture at the start of the kata, use this as a two hand flinch block against a right round punch. Strike the carotid and follow through pushing their head down moving the head round to choke.

The finishing position as shown in figure 212 essentially shows one arm crossing over the other - like an X Block.

So you block a punch, hit their carotid and apply a definative choke - a nice simple movement. This is shown in Heian Yondan as Double Knife Hand Blocks (are they called Awase Uke I can't remember?) into Juji Uke. But really it's more of a Shime.

My interpretation anyway.

john_lord_b3
21st April 2007, 14:11
Very interesting Simon san! thank you!

There is also an interpretation for that movement in Kushanku (Kanku Dai) Kata, from 2 person defenses perspective. One attacker grab your lapels from the front, another approach you from behind. You hit the guy in front of you with a hiza geri, then duck and kick the groin of the guy behind you with a horse kick.

Duanew
23rd April 2007, 18:29
Kuda Yuichi Shinshi showed me a Kunsanku variation as a step to the side and tripping someone attacking from behind, then sliding in and finishing the fight.

Duane Wolfe

john_lord_b3
25th April 2007, 13:17
Hello Duanew, I can't exactly get the picture, as your description is rather vague.. care to elaborate?

sauzin
8th May 2007, 22:40
In my experience one of the most important steps of interpreting bunkai is to look at the move or two before what you are trying to understand. Using the movement as a sprawl or a defense against a rushing leg grab works well, but in the kata (Kusanku dai) that contains the movement in our style we have a movement just prior which comes up to a double mid in a crane stance that can also be used to sweep up a standing or kicking leg and then drop down on top of the opponent, slamming them and their limb to the ground. This maneuver a bit dangerous to do in class since it can be difficult for the uki to fall properly when this is done right.

sauzin
9th May 2007, 15:27
Sorry, forgot to post my name

-Paul Holsinger
4th Dan Shinjitsukan Kenpo Kobudo

john_lord_b3
9th May 2007, 15:44
That crane stance, one of our interpretations is as a knee to the abdoment or groin. So, opponent attack from behind, we turn, block, knee him, and take him down with single leg takedown (ashidori).

PingAnTu
12th May 2007, 14:44
I once saw an Indonesian silat guy do this move in the exact manner of kusanku. He was simply demonstrating bear hug defensive themes. But considering the fact that the okinawans had embassies all over southeast asia there was no doubt some cross training going on.

The way he did it was as a grappling move in which his attacker had grabbed him in a front bear hug around the trunk of his body. Using body leveraging he twisted to the side and wrapped his arm around the other guys elbow. Then he dropped down for a very nasty arm break/ head smash on the floor. This one works from behind as well, or from the side. The theme is body leveraging to sink all the way to the floor for maximum power and it works great and is immediately recognizable as that same move in Kusanku.

Paul Adamson

john_lord_b3
14th May 2007, 14:39
I am Indonesian too :) what style of Pencak Silat you have witnessed? Maybe I know the style or even the practitioner..

You are correct about the cross-training part.. we have historical records of Southeast Asian people trading with Chinese, and Okinawa is one of the transit port for trading between China and Indones. BTW the Okinawan Sai is the same with Indonesian Trisula Pendek.