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bu-kusa
19th April 2007, 13:12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z72OHPjOwI4&mode=related&search=

Anyone have any thoughts?

Jason Chambers
19th April 2007, 14:14
Don't know if striking the throat is an advisable practice in law enforcement, even in Vegas.

FUGA DOJO
19th April 2007, 14:44
The correct way to word that is a strike to the chest in which collateral damage due to the ap moving caused him to be struck in the upper chest lower throat region...


Sincerely
greg weathers
fuga dojo cho
police defensive tactics instructor

tengu6
19th April 2007, 16:13
The correct way to word that is a strike to the chest in which collateral damage due to the ap moving caused him to be struck in the upper chest lower throat region...


Sincerely
greg weathers
fuga dojo cho
police defensive tactics instructor

10-4, that is correct. ;)

markk bush
www.bujinmag.com

Shindai
19th April 2007, 20:30
Given that the guy was standing there nonthreateningly (though I appreciate the possibility of a weapon in his pockets, and the danger of moving in quietly), that looks like a very rough takedown, even strikes me as potentially fatal.. was it necessary?

MakotoDojo
19th April 2007, 21:02
The correct way to word that is a strike to the chest in which collateral damage due to the ap moving caused him to be struck in the upper chest lower throat region...


Sincerely
greg weathers
fuga dojo cho
police defensive tactics instructor

hehehe...

<evil grin..>

Jason Chambers
19th April 2007, 21:11
The pen is mightier than the sword, even in law enforcement. LOL!

Then again, the one eyed witness gets you every time.

I appreciate how the little bike patrol guy "did what he had to do". I had to taze guy the other week because he wouldn't get his hands out of his pockets... and that is after he almost T-boned my unit.

MakotoDojo
19th April 2007, 21:40
Having myself been in law enforcement, and having many friends and students in law enforcement. I do have a pet peeve, and that is the cry of police brutality.

Does it happen? Of course, but more often than not police men and women are good upright officers and only do what is required. The police are disadvantaged greatly in modern times!

I always say it is better to be tried by 12 than to be carried by 6...

Having said this, I will share something that was shared with me by a student (police officer). It is graphic so be warned.

http://www.makoto-dojo.net/police.html

In the case of the video above, that was not much of a strike, just enough to thump his adams apple and shock him, but basically it should a good understanding of how to control balance. In effect no one was hurt were they?

When a policeman tells you to do something DO IT!

Shindai
19th April 2007, 22:12
I've seen those pictures before on googlevideo, a ten minute video outlininig the seriousness of knife attacks. Shocked me into taking it seriously. I'm currently doing knife techniques in ninjutsu, but there's no way in hell I'd ever stand my ground if somebody pulls a knife, it'll be a case of "oh, you meant THIS wallet.." lol.

Is the guy pictured somebody you know, or did your student just send you the page? It shows him sitting him, did he live? Or was he propped up?

Serious stuff :/ Woman in the street over from me was killed this week, I'm betting it was knife related, there's a lot of knife crime around here lately :(

MakotoDojo
19th April 2007, 22:32
Hello,

no it was not someone we knew. My student was sent this from some police people he knew. The text was written by them as well. From what I know, he lived. I guess he was also trained in martial arts...

I have great respect for the blade. I myself was stabbed once and slashed once. The stab felt like a punch, I didn't know I was stabed until I seen blood. The slash felt like a burn, that's the best way to describe it, it burned.
Neither time was I aware of a blade until I was already cut...

Speaking of assualts and neighborhoods, we have been having a huge outbreak of these recently as well. Apparently, there is a gang here called the "goonies" they have been doing racial attacks and harrasment, and beating up old people.

Just a few weeks ago a man on his 80th birthday was killed, beaten to death! He heard some noise in his back yard when he went to his car and went to check, a group of kids beat him with punches and kicks and stole his car and drove it less than a block and jumped out leaving it running.

The man was unable to recover from his beating and passed away on his birth day...

Some more beating happened this week as well..

Sick!

Shindai
19th April 2007, 22:54
Bloke was beaten to death while walking his dog round the road, too, by a group of 8 or 10 teenagers... I can't express my feelings coz this board doesn't allow profanity, but you can imagine, I'm a colourful kind of guy.

I have lately been knife fighting with a friend with rubber knives. A slash with one of those feels exactly how I imagine a real cut feeling like. I used to be a self cutter (I'm more than a little ashamed of that), so I know how a slow cut feels, based on that I think I have a clue (may be wrong, of course) but it's enough to put me off finding out for sure :D lol

I'm glad if the guy lived. Must have left some impressive scars, though. Hell of a story for the pub lol

knarly b
20th April 2007, 14:42
It didnt look excessive to me, more of a grab than a strike. The guy could have been prepping a knife in his hand for the moment the officer tried to restrain him.

It seems like kids beating people up happens more and more these days - even in my sleepy little town. Young kids and teenagers tried to threaten me by shouting and trying to engage me - asking "oi wots yore name" as i walked past not long ago, i just engaged back in similar style but completely non threatening - no more trouble since. some other kids verbally assaulted my girlfriend too but she gave them the evil eye and they carried on with their bad language as she walked off, wish i was there at the time.

Beware of anyone asking you for the time, a year or two ago a guy asked me, my mate and my brother what the time was. Just as we were checking - he whipped a plastic pen out of his pocket real quick. But then he gave it a funny look and said we could have a pen and gestured toward my mate with it. As my friend took it i walked to the side of the guy and held my skateboard (we all had them that day) in both hands, he backed off and turned and walked. But im sure he would have robbed us if he'd have pulled the right thing out as it was obvious that he was on something and very jittery.

I wonder what id have done if he had pulled a knife, we probably would have given him our stuff but as there were three of us and we were armed with our boards - i really dont know.

Jason Chambers
20th April 2007, 16:50
taser! Taser! Taser!

ElfTengu
20th April 2007, 18:59
Having myself been in law enforcement, and having many friends and students in law enforcement. I do have a pet peeve, and that is the cry of police brutality.

Does it happen? Of course, but more often than not police men and women are good upright officers and only do what is required. The police are disadvantaged greatly in modern times!

I always say it is better to be tried by 12 than to be carried by 6...

Having said this, I will share something that was shared with me by a student (police officer). It is graphic so be warned.

http://www.makoto-dojo.net/police.html

In the case of the video above, that was not much of a strike, just enough to thump his adams apple and shock him, but basically it should a good understanding of how to control balance. In effect no one was hurt were they?

When a policeman tells you to do something DO IT!

Thanks Richard,

These photos need to be resurrected every time anyone talks clever about knife fighting/defence on this forum.

I would be even more worried if this was due to a solo attacker when the guy was trained to deal with such attacks. He has clearly been cut front back and side, but thankfully not to the neck, wrist or femoral areas, although there are still plenty of blood vessels in the areas where he has been injured (check your Gray's Anatomy, the book, not the TV show!).

And it looks as though his irezumi has been spoiled too!

Despite the unpleasantness of escalating an event in order to end it, I'm sure there is an old saying that goes "Never bring a knife to a gunfight". This could be adapted to "don't bring your fists to a knife fight".

Unfortunately in the UK civilians and police officers are limited in what they can use as an external tool to defend themselves. Certainly no civvy can even own a taser or carry any item whatsoever designed for defence. You can pick up a piece of pipe that happens to be lying nearby and club an armed attacker with it but you cannot carry the same piece of pipe with such a purpose in mind. All 'defensive' weapons are 'offensive' weapons in the eyes of UK law.

The guy in these photos could have done with the slash-proof Kevlar hoodie that is about to go on the market for about £65.

MakotoDojo
20th April 2007, 19:15
Hi,

I do not know what happened to the Officer, but it would appear to me that the chest cut was the first and the side cut the second and the back cuts are consistent with running away while being chased...


Another thing to learn is that it seems to uphold the statistics that its the last not first cuts that kill you. In other words never give up, keep running, keep fighting whatever, but never give up.

I mean after all, your only other choice is sure death...

ElfTengu
21st April 2007, 15:51
Yes, and simple principles like only exposing the outside of your forearms, not the inside where the all the gushy bits are.

Also, a current practice of knife attackers in the UK is to stab to the side of the neck in the style of a palm-face-down boshi ken or koppo ken. Due to the angle and manner of attack, a lot of people would respond as though a hook punch had been thrown but many smothering techniques that would cause a fist to stop short of its target would not work when a blade is added to the equation.

Something worth thinking about. Principles are probably more important than complete techniques when training to avoid damage from a knife.

saru1968
21st April 2007, 20:36
Only had one encounter with a knife some 15 years ago, scared the hell out of me. My own fault as i did not consider a weapon to be part of the equation.

My training mate nearly go caught out badly outside a nightclub. Guy threw a hook punch(or at least my mate thought it was) urn out to be a slash with a small knife. He just got a light scratch across his face because he moved. But he was so lucky.



Now i assume everyone is armed including myself.