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Neil Yamamoto
24th April 2007, 23:29
America’s liquor heritage - Rye Whiskey, Bourbon, & Tennessee Whiskey

Since this is not just about consumption, but knowledge since “knowledge is good” to quote a movie, here’s a brief history of why corn whiskey became wide spread, why it’s known as bourbon, and how Tennessee whiskey differs from Bourbon, and Rye Whiskey.

These liquors are interwoven deeply with the early history of the United States of America. Prior to the spread of native made whiskey, the most common alcoholic beverages consumed were beers, hard ciders, and rum. Smaller amounts of brandy, Irish whiskey and Scotch whisky from importation, but rum, cider, and beer were the most popular, mainly due to ease of production or abundant supplies. As time went by and the native distillation of rye and corn whiskey became common, these grew to be the most popular liquors. Rye whiskey was at first the most popular distilled drink. George Washington himself was a major whiskey distiller at his Mount Vernon estate and made roughly $7500 in a year as a distiller. Back then, that was big money.

The first major challenge to the United States government was the Whiskey Rebellion, due to the liquor tax imposed by the Washington administration by Treasury secretary Alexander Hamilton and was the United States’ first major use of military power to control the citizens of the country. At that time, the economy was still agrarian in nature in the United States, and the farmers bore the brunt of taxes from the newly formed government. The farmers used excess grain to make liquor, and this was a good use for surplus grain since it made them a very profitable product that was easily transported. This tax was considered unfair since it cut deeply into the farmer’s income on top of the taxes they already paid, and the farmers rose in rebellion. (Gee, sounds like the rebellions in feudal Japan for rice.)

There had been a smaller uprising a few years previous to the Whiskey rebellion called Shay’s Rebellion. This was also due to heavy taxation from the new government. The federal government wanted to make a harsh example in the Whiskey Rebellion uprising as a preventative measure against future problems. They assembled an army of about 13,000 troops. Lead by George Washington, Alexander Hamilton, and Civil War general Henry Lee, they marched to what is now the Monongahela, Pennsylvania area to put down the rebellion, only to find the rebels had already left the area. A few people were arrested, but the point was made not to challenge the government.

This show of force was largely a failure, the use of troops was hugely unpopular and lead to lessened popularity and support for the Federalists and aided the rise of the Democratic Republican Party. The tax also was a failure since the Federal government had no truly effective means to enforce the collection of the tax except in a small region of the new country.

Bourbon whiskey owes its real growth to the Irish- Scottish settlers who fled the United States areas of control due to the tax and military action and settled in the Kentucky – Tennessee area since this land was still outside the United States control. They took up distillation again, of course. The quashing of the rebellion actually spurred the growth of small-scale distillation since the Kentucky and Tennessee areas had prime land for growing corn and had numerous sources of good spring water. Since supplies for production were abundant, more whiskey was available post rebellion than pre rebellion.

Since lots of whiskey was produced in the Bourbon County region and due to the confluence of rivers being used for transportation, lots of whiskey was shipped through Bourbon County area. People started asking for ‘Bourbon’ when they wanted whiskey, hence the name. Today, it’s a generic term for corn whiskey produced in the state of Kentucky and other close by states, regardless of actual origin.

By United States laws, Bourbon must use 51%+ corn, be distilled at less than 160 proof off the still, and be aged at least two years in new oak barrels. Barley is used to aid fermentation and flavoring, and the use of rye also adds flavoring, a spiciness to the whiskey. Wheat is sometimes used, such as by Maker’s Mark, and makes for a smoother nose and taste to the whiskey.

How does Bourbon differ from Tennessee whiskey?
Tennessee whiskey is only produced in Tennessee and uses what is popularly called the “Lincoln Country process”, or charcoal mellowing. This involves slowly filtering the whiskey through a large vat of sugar maple charcoal and matting, resulting in what they say is a more refined whiskey. Bourbon does not use this process. There are only two distilleries producing Tennessee whiskey, Jack Daniels and the George Dickel Cascade Distillery. The same ingredients are used in Tennessee whiskey as are used in Bourbon.

So what’s Rye Whiskey?
Rye whiskey on the other hand uses rye as the dominant grain and is by law made with at least 51% rye in the mashbill content. The commonly found brands of Rye whiskey are Rittenhouse Rye, Old Overholt, Jim Beam Rye, Wild Turkey Rye, and Old Potrero.

What the heck is Sour Mash?
This production method is very commonly used by all whiskey makers and is nothing unique despite some labeling claims. A portion of the previous mash, which has had all the sugars consumed by the yeast in fermentation, hence is called ‘soured’, is added to the new batch to ensure quality and consistency from batch to batch. This prevents wild yeast from possibly contaminating the fermenting mash and affecting flavors and aromas. This process was first used on a large production scale by Dr. James Crow. Who is best remembered by the whiskey named after him, Old Crow.

What’s bottled in Bond?
This term is still used sometimes, and refers to the certification that the whiskey met government regulations for bottling quality. This means the whiskey is a straight whiskey which was aged for 4 years, 100 proof and bottled in a licensed or “Bonded” warehouse.

Reviews
By no means complete, far too many brands produced to review here. This is a basic selection of what should be readily available bottlings in most parts of the world, and of what my taste buds tell me are good values for the money or just darn good whiskies regardless of price. I’ve included the entire Jim Beam small batch since they are so readily available and of good quality, and I’ve searched my notes looking for at least one whiskey made by the major distilleries in production today.

I’ve left out several of the harder to find bottlings such as Hirsch, 4 Roses straight whiskies. But if you find a 16 year old Hirsch, a 100 proof 4 Roses in duty free shops, or a Rip Van Winkle Family Reserve 20 year old, Buy it, and hide it from friends.

BOURBON WHISKIES

Bakers
Color: Amber brown
Nose: Fruity, caramel, vanilla, some oak
Mouth: Big, full bodied
Taste: Nutty, fruit, light vanilla overtones
Finish: medium long, sweet
Note: Jim Beam Small Batch Collection. This is the little brother to Bookers, 107 proof and is filtered. Great with a few small cubes of ice, or a splash of water.

Basil Hayden
Color: Light amber brown
Nose: Spice, hints of mint
Mouth: Light, some bite
Taste: Very spicy peppery, honey, hint of oak
Finish: Dry, short
Note: Another of the Jim Beam Small Batch Collection. There is more character of rye than the other small batch whiskies. If you like a dry spicy wine, this bourbon will appeal to you.

Bookers
Color: Amber brown
Nose: Oak, vanilla, smoky
Mouth: HUGE
Taste: Lots of fruit, oak, vanilla, tobacco, smoky
Finish: Very long, warm, more of the flavors appear and don’t go away
Note: The big daddy of the Jim Beam Small Batch Collection. Full cask strength and unfiltered. About 120- 126 proof! Sip this slowly to get the full experience, then and only then, dilute with water to develop the aroma and flavors.

Elmer T Lee
Color: Amber Gold
Nose: Vanilla, toffee, grass, leather
Mouth: Big full bodied
Taste: fruit, honey, vanilla, spice
Finish: Long, warm, more spice and leather
Note: This is a great whiskey from the Buffalo Trace distillery, which turns out a huge number of different bottlings. This single barrel bottling is in honor of the former master distiller Elmer Tandy Lee.

Evan Williams 7 year old
Color: Light brown
Nose: Floral, honey, vanilla, very fragrant
Mouth: Light to medium body
Taste: Slightly sweet, vanilla, caramel toffee, some hints of mint, tabacco
Finish: medium, more sweetness and caramel
Note: This is a very good budget whiskey from the Heaven Hill distillery. Especially when you consider it is 7 years old and consider what a 7-year old Scotch or Irish Whisky would cost. Good as a shot, on the rocks, or keep it in the freezer.

Elijah Craig 12 year old
Color: Golden Brown
Nose: Vanilla, oak, slight herbal grassiness.
Mouth: Medium to full body
Taste: Vanilla, caramel toffee, slight herbal bitterness, oak, honey
Finish: Long, more caramel, herbal overtone reappears
Note: This is the big brother to the Evan Williams 7 year old bottling. It uses the same mashbill as the Evan Williams bottling. The extra years make a big difference in nose and deepening of the whiskey in flavor. Another really good whiskey from the Heaven Hill Distillery.

Knob Creek
Color: Copper, amber brown
Nose: Rich, dry crisp fruit, oak,
Mouth: Full bodied, a bit of bite
Taste: Toasted grain, nutty, oak, fruit, caramel sweet, alcohol bite appears at the end
Finish: Long, very warm, more oak
Note: 100 proof, it will sneak up on you since the flavor and smoothness fools you. Drink this neat or with a splash of water. This is probably the best balanced of the Jim Beam Small Batch collection for flavor, aroma, and smoothness.

Maker’s Mark
Color: Golden Brown
Nose: Oak, vanilla, caramels, orange, hint of mint
Mouth: Medium to full body, smooth
Taste: caramel, vanilla, oak, very slight grassy hints, sweet, orange peels
Finish: Medium to long, more sweetness and caramel toffee, warm and smooth
Note: This is a great example of how wheat smoothes the nose and flavor.

Rip Van Winkle 10 year old
Color: Coppery gold
Nose: Big, toffee, caramel, honey, spicy
Mouth: Very full bodied
Taste: Toffee, oak hints, vanilla, faint hint of herbal bitterness
Finish: Rich, long, more caramel and spice
Note: An outstanding whiskey, lacking only when compared to it’s 15 year old sibling. Best sipped neat and warmed by your hand or by a few drops of hot water.

Rip Van Winkle 15 year old
Color: Coppery gold
Nose: Rich, toffee, buttery, spice
Mouth: Big, full bodied
Taste: Caramel, sweet, toffee, pepper, spicy,
Finish: Long, warm, some oak, sweet and spicy,
Note: A really good whiskey, best neat and warmed by your hand or by a few drops of hot water.

Rebel Yell
Color: Light gold brown
Nose: Sweet, fruit, honey, buttery toffee
Mouth: Medium to full bodied
Taste: Sweet, Hints of vanilla, caramel, fruity, light oak, slight raisiny taste and spice
Finish: Medium to long, warm
Note: This is a wheated bourbon and is really a great value in bourbon. Good neat, but best on the rocks.

Wild Turkey Rare Breed
Color:
Nose: fruit, tabacco, vanilla, honey
Mouth: Heavy, oily, sharp bite
Taste: fruit, honey, vanilla, oak, peppers, tabacco, mint, almonds, toasted bread
Finish: Long, nutty, toasted bread again, some small bite and then very warm
Note: This is a cask strength whiskey, with whiskies up to 12 years old in the bottlings. Wild Turkey in any bottling makes some of the best most consistently high quality whiskies of any distillery in the world.

TENNESSEE WHISKEY

Jack Daniels #7 black label
Color: Light gold brown
Nose: Sweet, licorice, light oak, vanilla, fruit
Mouth: Medium to heavy body
Taste: Sweet, smoky, lots of fruit, apple, orange, licorice,
Finish: Long, lots of bite, more sweetness, smoke, licorice.
Note: I’m not a fan of Jack Daniels, but this is a well-crafted whiskey. Jack and Coke- yech! Use a cheap bourbon instead as a mixer and drink this stuff as intended to get the full flavors. I find it’s best on the rocks or with a big splash of water, or as a shot with a highly hopped ale, like an IPA.

Gentleman Jack
Color: Gold brown, tending toward dark brown
Nose: Sweet, lots of smoke, licorice, vanilla, light oak
Mouth: Medium to heavy body, almost cloying
Taste: Sweet, licorice, smoke, orange peel, pear, slight herbalness.
Finish: Medium to long, more sweetness.
Note: This whiskey is great for those who like a sweeter whiskey. As a result, this is best on the rocks or with lots of water, or as a digestif after dinner. I personally don’t find this bottling appealing due to the sweetness.

George Dickel #8
Color: Brown, light gold
Nose: Sweet honey, nuts, oak, smoke
Mouth: Full bodied,
Taste: Sweet, oak, vanilla, smoke, some alcohol bite
Finish: Medium Long, more oak, and sweetness.
Note: While similar to Jack Daniels, this bottling has a very appealing dryness where Jack Daniels is overly sweet. This one is at its best on the rocks or in a shot, tossed back with a beer.

George Dickel #12
Color: Deep brown gold
Nose: Honey, oak, nuts
Mouth: Big, full bodied
Taste: Oak, nuts, honey, hint of mint, smoke
Finish: Medium to Long, more smoke, sweet
Note: This is a great whiskey, crisper and drier, better flavor balance than the #8 version. This one is fantastic with a splash of hot water to bring out the nose and flavors.

RYE WHISKEY

Jim Beam Rye
Color: Brown
Nose: Spicy, sharp, fruit, citrus orange notes
Mouth: Big full oily, pungent.
Taste: Pepper, fruit, nuts, vanilla, oaky, some bite.
Finish: Long, almost hot, some sharp notes of spice, a slight bitterness
Note: This is a 100 proof whiskey, you may wish to add a splash of water, or a bit of ice to tone it down. This whiskey is rough and bites, but has tons of flavor. I really enjoy this rye with a cold lager, or with a splash of angostura bitters on the rocks.

Old Overholt
Color: Light gold brown
Nose: lightly fruity and spicy
Mouth: Medium to full bodied, lots of warmth
Taste: Fruit, spice, vanilla and a bit of oak, some toasted grain/bread hints
Finish: Warm, comforting, short to medium finish, more spice and vanilla
Note: This is a good introduction to Rye whiskey, and is readily found almost everywhere I’ve been. If you see it and want to try a rye, this is the one to go for. Best with a couple cubes of ice.

Old Potrero 19th century bottling
Color: Dark gold brown
Nose: Rich, heavy, pungent sour notes
Mouth: Medium to full bodied
Taste: Heavy pepper, vanilla, light fruit, oak, grass, menthol, tobacco, bitterness and oak
Finish: Long, honey and spice reappear, warming
Note: For the expensive cost, interesting, but not to be repeated at the high cost per bottle or bar prices asked. This is a pot still rye, attempting to recreate the original distillation methods used in whiskey, and which is why it’s interesting. But this needs a bit more time or a reworking of the distillation methods used, it’s not very well balanced. This is based off a sampling done a few years ago(2004), so the newer bottling available maybe different and of better quality.

Rittenhouse
Color: golden brown
Nose: Fruity, honey, fruit, vanilla
Mouth: Medium body, slightly oily
Taste: Spice, then fruit and vanilla, almost honey sweet, some wood and nuts, a hint of bitterness
Finish: short to medium, very smooth
Note: This is the 80 proof version tasted. The 100 proof is almost identical in taste but the flavors are more intense. The 100 proof has a sharper nose and a short and sharp finish. This rye is better on the rocks than neat.

Van Winkle Family Reserve Rye 13 year old bottling
Color: Dark brown with gold overtones
Nose: Rich, full, spice and fruit, oak
Mouth: Big, oily and lingering
Taste: Fruit, citrus, pear, pepper, hints of chocolate like bitterness, then vanilla, nuts, honey, oak
Finish: Big, long, more vanilla, spice, leather
Note: This is one of the best rye whiskeys I’ve tasted. Drink this neat, or with a splash of water at most.

Wild Turkey Rye
Color: Dark golden brown
Nose: Sharp, spicy, sweet
Mouth: Rich, heavy, oily, some bite.
Taste: Spicy, pepper, sweet, vanilla, bittersweet caramel toffee, oak
Finish: Long, flavorful, some bite, (101 proof so not unexpected)
Note: Another great whiskey from Wild Turkey. Probably my favorite rye overall, and it’s only about $25. This is wonderful neat, but most people will find it easier to enjoy with a splash of water or lots of ice.

Paul Steadman
26th April 2007, 06:58
Hello Neil,

Thanks mate. I consider myself educated! Here in Oz; Jim Beam and Jack Daniels are popular, and I've always waondered what the difference between Scotch and Bourbon was, when they are both whiskies. I thought that Scotch came from Scotlanf and Bourbon came from various souther US states :-D

Cheers,

Earl Hartman
28th April 2007, 00:38
Scots whisky does come from Scotland and Borubon does come from the US.

But, as Neal points out, the main grain for Bourbon is corn. True Scots whisky is distilled from barley.

Then there is Irish whiskey, which is distilled from malted barley like Scots whisky, but differs from Scots whisky in that the malted barley is dried in sealed ovens whereas the malt for Scots whiskey is dried over peat fires. This gives Scots whisky its characteristically smoky flavor, which Irish whiskey lacks.

Paul Steadman
28th April 2007, 16:37
Aaahhh,

Thanks for the clarification.

Cheers,

Joe Jackson
29th April 2007, 10:26
Hello all.

Whiskey (the spelling usually connotes Irish or American derivation) is in fact usually NOT malted (germinated) unless it is a style known as Single Malt Whisky, which is made in Scotland.

Whisky was invented by the Irish and came to Scotland when some Irish clans settled there and became what we know today as the Scots. They brought with them red hair, tartan kilts, bag pipes, Gaelic dialects and whiskey.

Bushmills Irish Whiskey is made at the oldest current whiskey distillery in the UK. It makes some malted whiskey, but generally sticks to the traditional style.

Scotch whisky, on the other hand, is famous because of its flavour derived from malted grain. Originally, whiskey was a distillate made from grain that had no particular flavour. This was the case with all early spirits, such as schnapps, wodka (vodka), potcheen, grappa etc.

Today's best known Scotch brands, such as Johnny Walker, are blended from neutral grain spirit and malt whisky. The mix is about 70/30 in favour of the tasteless stuff for cheap blends and 50/50 for the 'premium' stuff like Johnny Walker Black Label and Chivas Regal. All these blends, though, are not the real thing. They were invented to appeal to the English market back in the mid nineteenth century because they were closer in weight to gin or vodka.

Single malts, on the other hand, are real Scotch Whisky and vary greatly in colour and flavour depending on where they are made. Lowland malts are lightly peated and pale in colour, highland malts can be very rich and smooth and the island malts are the most robust of all. Those from the island of Islay are the most characterful, with prime examples being those from the Laphroaig, Lagavuulin and Ardbeg distilleries.

Here, you can taste whisky with a distinctive iodine tang (because of the seaweed-derived peat used to dry the malted barley).

These whiskies (readily available at 43% to 46%) are much closer to how the Scots would have tasted them a few hundred years ago. Although, for a more authentic experience, you should pour out a measure of cask strength malt (about 70% alc/vol) and add a dash of cool (not refrigerated) water. The practice of adding ice or soda to scotch whisky is a modern one and is no more appropriate to the serving of single malt whisky than is the chilling of a good red wine.

Regards,

Joe Jackson.

ps: Why is this being discussed on E-Budo? What does it have to do with Japanese culture?

Neil Yamamoto
29th April 2007, 18:57
Joe Jackson wrote:

ps: Why is this being discussed on E-Budo? What does it have to do with Japanese culture?

Neil replies:
Well, this is the food and drink forum. Lots of e-budoka drink, as do their sensei, and lots of them drink bourbon, Irish whiskey, and Scotch. Since it's been of interest to many who read the forums, and I'm moderator of the food and drink forum, I see no problem with discussion of booze regardless of cultural origin.

We have had discussion of sake, beers, wine, various liquors, and from what I'm told by others, they like having it discussed and a reference place for what to try and buy for their sensei. Heck, one traveler to Japan bought the current Aikido doshu a bottle of Glenlivet 21 year old based off reading my posts about Scotch, and another friend took his kenjutsu sensei in Japan a really good bottle of Springbank based off reading about booze on the forum.

So, that's why we have it here, it's of interest to many people on the fourm.

Joe Jackson
30th April 2007, 02:05
Fair enough, Neil. Thanks for that.

It does put forward an interesting concept, though: gardening techniques on a political forum (if enough voters have planted rose bushes lately), gynaecological issues on an aviation forum (if there is a healthy percentage of women pilots contributing), facts about traditional Egyptian clothing on an Italian culture forum (if there have been recent instances of Italians wanting to blend in with an Egyptian crowd)...

Hope you don't mind my sledge hammer humour, Neil :-)

Regards,

Joe Jackson.

Neil Yamamoto
30th April 2007, 17:35
Hey Joe, no problems with your humor for me!

The members lounge is wide open for any topic off budo, and I see the food and drink forum being more lax on the "Japanese culture aspects only" limitations some of the other forum have(for good reason I might add). When I took this forum over as moderator, I went and read most of it and noticed the threads were all over the place, so I went with the flow and kept it that way.

Soon, given any free time, I'll start posting some Japanese recipes, and in the history traditions forum, I'll post blurbs on Japanese Cultural things, and how some of those have remained in use in American culture with Japanese American families.

I've not had the time to do much of what I'd like to do since work stinks, and time is limited, but drop in every now and than to see what pops up.

MikeWilliams
30th April 2007, 18:38
There's more to life than budo, y'know.

I for one really enjoy these booze reviews. So thanks for posting them Neil - I know it must be a terrible sacrifice... :)

Earl Hartman
30th April 2007, 19:21
Well, according to the sources I have read, the barley for Irish whiskey is malted.

http://www.drinkfocus.com/whiskey/irish-whiskey.php

It is my understanding that the grain must be malted (germinated) for the process of converting the strach in the grain to sugar, which can then be converted into alcohol, to begin. I would be interested to know how the grain can be fermented if it is not malted first.

It does appear, however, that both malted and unmalted barley is used for Irish whiskey. I guess it depends on the type of still.

However, since I prefer Scots single malt anyway (Oban is my favorite, at least at my present neophyte [compared to Neil] stage), my interest is only academic.

On a completely different (and Japanese) subject, I just got back from a short trip to Japan and was able to stop by Kanazawa and Akita and get samples of shoyu and miso from both places.

The differences are astonishing. Both are quite good, but they are completely different. Kanazawa shoyu is sublte and slightly sweet, which offsets the saltiness and imparts a sort of smokiness of flavor that makes it taste almost like dashi has been added. This makes perfect sense, since Kanazawa cooking is heavily influenced by the Kyoto/Kansai style.The Akita shoyu is strong, dark and robust, with a deep salty kick, but without any of the harshness you find in most commercial brands. Both different, both superb.

The reason I got the Akita stuff is because an old kyudo friend of mine from my Kanazawa days, who is a native of Akita, told me I had to come see him because he had discovered a neglected cache of magnificent old kyudo arrows, with hawk and eagle fletchings unavailable today, in the possession of the proprietress of a 200-year old shoyu and miso manufacury whose father had done kyudo back in Meiji. He had strumbled on them purely by accident when taking a tour of the place, which is maintained as a kind of museum, since it still has the old kura, or warehouse, as well as the old Meiji-period shop building/house. Since he had a relative who was an arrow maker, he had recognized the treasure she had, of the value of which she was completely ignorant.

Well, we went there, and he was right. It was enough to make you weep. Arrows with feathers like that would go for about $10,000 for a set of four today, if you could get them, and she had at least 30-40 arrows all told, some in almost pristine condition, others a little the worse for wear. And they were the perfect length for me! There were even 8 arrows with what are called ishiuchi feathers (the outermost feather on each side of the tail), of which each bird has only two. These are the ultimate feathers, since they can be used as is, without the need to be cut into shape. This makes them not only beautiful but far more durable than any other feathers, since a cut feather will gradually be worn away as it slides along the bow when the arrow is released. Since the edge is slightly curled over, the uncut feather simply gives slightly as it passes along the bow and springs back into shape, so there is no wear or tear. And this was a matched set of eight, all of the feathers sharing the same color pattern. I shudder to think how much something like that would cost today, even if it were possible to find feathers of that quality.

My friend had said that if we praised the arrows profusely enough perhaps she would part with a set. No such luck. Since he had fist vistied her and told her how to keep the arrows so the feathers wouldn't be eaten by bugs, she had clearly realized how much they were worth. So no matter how many superlatives we flung around, we got bupkes out of it.

The bitch of it is that she used to have twice as many and had given a bunch of them away!

I could have kicked myself all the way from Akita to Tokyo. I should have gone up there when he first told me about these arrows a few years back. Serves me right for thinking work was more important than budo.

But I did get some fine shoyu and miso out of the trip. And the daikon radish pickled in sake lees is to die for.

Mark Murray
30th April 2007, 20:09
Although I'm not much of a Bourbon lover, I did enjoy the post. Thanks Neil.

I recently picked up some 15 yr old Dalwhinnie Scotch and have to say that it isn't all that bad. :)

Mark

Joe Jackson
2nd May 2007, 09:36
Hi, Neil. That's fine. You're doing a better job than I would be doing (I'm not too sure if sobriety would be possible, given such a charge as yours!).

And thanks for the link, Earl. Your 'to malt or not to malt' theory is not as I understand it. Which means I'd better do my research! Thanks for the interesting spur-on. I love all things Single Malt and may have read some misleading literature regarding the uniqueness of this liquor.

I might say, though, that I understood whiskey to have been originally distilled from a fermented grain, air-borne yeast and water combination (much like vodka). The naturally inherant sugars in the grain (without the need for germination, which takes place under ideally damp and not sopping wet conditions) were enough to make a low alcohol wine suitable for distilling. I'll have to read more.

Regards to you both.

Joe Jackson.

Earl Hartman
3rd May 2007, 21:59
Obviously, fermenting dry grain would be impossible; liquid has to be involved somehow. I assume that in the beginning grain was mixed with water and left to sit; at some point it would naturally start to ferment. I also have to assume that once the grain comes into contact with water it will start to germinate (I don't see how it could avoid it) at some point or undergo a similar process by which the starch is converted into sugar, which is then converted into alcohol by yeast spores.

That is, even if the grain was not deliberately malted, something similar would occur as a natural consequence of exposing grain to water.

Maybe different stills work in different ways and some processes don't require the kind of malting process the Scots employ.

But, like I said, this is academic to me. It tastes good, however they make it. But I've got to say I like the peat smoke.

Up to a point, anyway. I know a lot of people rave about it, but for me Laphroig is just not fit to drink.

Joe Jackson
4th May 2007, 08:33
Hi, Earl.

Yes, that 'medicine cabinet' flavour is a real love it or hate it thing. I suppose you would dislike most Islay malts, then.

Regards, Joe Jackson.

Earl Hartman
4th May 2007, 19:20
Like I said, for me Oban has a nice balance between sweetness and smokiness. Drinking Laphroig, on the other hand, is like getting hit in the head with a brick.

I don't know the Islay single malts too well; I suppose if that iodine-like flavor were whispering softly to you instead of bellowing in your ear through a bullhorn it might be enjoyable. It's all a matter of balance.

MikeWilliams
4th May 2007, 23:20
As a youth, I really liked bourbons, I then moved on to Irish whiskeys (which I still love).

I never drank much scotch and used to have difficulty with the really smoky single malts but (thanks in part to having a fiance who is really into them), I'm acquiring the taste. Laphroaig and Ardbeg are current favourites. I now feel slightly cheated if I taste one of the sweeter lowland jobbies.

Cheapo bourbons are now way too caramelly for my palate. I need to get hold of some of the better ones and re-acquaint myself.

I love the complexity and variation of whisky/whiskey.

One day I'm going to do a similar tasting guide for cognacs and armagnacs which are still my main area of expertise. Mmmm, yum.

:)

Earl Hartman
4th May 2007, 23:47
Cahcun a son gout, I guess.

BigJon
5th May 2007, 21:39
Hi Mike,

Looking for smoke/peat, ever tried Talisker? It tastes like a peat fire..good if you are soaked to the bone, and need to warm up you "innerds"...