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View Full Version : Asashorio is much like Rocky Marciano...



jonpalombi
26th April 2007, 00:12
Yes, Asashorio is much like Rocky Marciano, insofar as being a great champion in an era without equally great competitiors. Don't get me wrong, I love the guy. It just doesn't seem fair that his record as Yokazuna is such an easy road. Sure, Hakuho is an incredible Ozeki, as is evidenced by his recent basho victory in Osaka... but just think back to ten years ago! Takanohana, as tremendous a rikishi as he was, had quite a bit of competition from the many truly great Yokazunas and Ozeki of his day. Asashorio is not dominating the same level of rivals as Takanohana had to. This is unfortunate for many reasons. To start with, his incredible performance as Yokazuna is quickly placing him near the top of the all-time Yokazuna statistics. Considering that he is still very young, he will soon have the highest number of tournament victories, personal wins, consecutive wins, etc...Could he really handle a young Takanohana, Akibono, Musashimaru or even Kayo? What do you think?

t.matsutaka
26th April 2007, 00:26
Yes, Asashorio is much like Rocky Marciano
Asashoryu


Yokazunas
Yokozuna

jonpalombi
26th April 2007, 02:14
Sorry about the spelling errors. Still, regardless of my incorrect spelling, I do feel that Asashoryu has had a much easier road to his position as a record-breaking Yokozuna. Which takes nothing away from his awsome abilities. And, much like Rocky Marciano, the world will never know how he would fare within an era filled with the likes of a young Takanohana, Wakanohana, Akibono and Musashimaru. Who knows...maybe his biggest rivalries are just around the corner?

jonpalombi
3rd May 2007, 02:16
I'm curious, was my thread comparing Yokozuna Asashoryu to boxing Legend Rocky Marciano too archaic? I'm 48 and still recall the presence of "The Rock" during my childhood. He still stands as the only undefeated World Heavyweight Boxing Champion ever, with a 49/ 0 record. He emerged in the early 1950's, not long after the era of the tremendous Joe Louis. Most critics of his time, and to this day, claim he never faced the level of competition that previous great champions had to face. Even though he defeated ex-champions Joe Louis, Jersey Joe Wolcott and Ezzard Charles...he fought them way past their prime. Much the same can be said of Asashoryu's victories over Takanohana, Musashi Maru and Kaio. Also, in a parallel viewpoint, the statistics these champions leave in their records reflect as much the caliber of their opponents as themselves. How would Asashoryu stack-up against to Taiko, Wajima, Chiyonofuji, Kitanoumi and Takanohana. This is relevant, as he is closing-in on all of their historic records and statistics. What do you think?

t.matsutaka
3rd May 2007, 02:42
against to Taiko, Wajima, Chiyonofuji, Kitanoumi and Takanohana
Taiko?? I think you mean Taiho.
You can learn about Sumo names and correct spelling here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumo

jonpalombi
3rd May 2007, 07:20
Sometimes, while I type-out my ramblings, I hit the wrong letters. This is due to the fact that I am not looking at the keys. Since spell-check does not know the English spelling of Japanese Rikishis names, mistakes are made.
It's so good to know there are people like you out there to point it out to me. Funny, you don't seem to have a damn thing to say about the topic of the thread. You must have an opinion about it, one way or the other? Regardless, do enjoy the upcoming Tokyo Basho. I know I will. Illiterate? Perhaps I am. Devoted? Perhaps I am. I've seen every match, of every day, of every Makuuchi division Grand Sumo Basho broadcast by NHK, for the last 12 years. Which is how long satellite TV has offered it, up here in the mountains of Vermont. While this hardly makes me qualified to misspell the names of famous champions, it does encourage me to communicate my enthusiasm.
Yours in Martial Spirit, Jon Palombi

Todd Lambert
4th May 2007, 01:07
...Much the same can be said of Asashoryu's victories over Takanohana, Musashi Maru and Kaio....
AFAIK, Asashoryu was never able to defeat Takanohana. IIRC, Takanohana was one of the few rikishi Asashoryu faced and was not able to secure even a single win over.

If you are interested in sumo, I recommend Moti Dichne's Sumo Site (http://www.dichne.com/), Sumo Fan Magazine (http://www.sumofanmag.com/), and Sumo Forum (http://www.sumoforum.net/).

jonpalombi
4th May 2007, 03:46
[QUOTE=eelecurb]AFAIK, Asashoryu was never able to defeat Takanohana. IIRC, Takanohana was one of the few rikishi Asashoryu faced and was not able to secure even a single win over.

Now that you mention it... he never did. For some reason, I thought he might have squeezed-in a victory. For as the "Great One" had suffered through illness and injury, he was victim to several defeats that defied conception. So, as you poignantly barked, "Asashoryu never defeated Takanohana." He was never on quite the same level as the glorious Masters that preceded him. MY POINT EXACTLY!!!! Why do you think I started this thread? Frankly, NOBODY is saying anything about sumo on this website. Month after month it seems to lay vacant. Being naive, I thought to myself, "Maybe I should start a thread." This tradition is too important to lay dormant! Thanks for trying to point out that I know so little about sumo history. Your opinion, I can only guess, is perhaps that you DON'T HAVE ONE AT ALL! Be my guest, respond to the initial statement. Maybe you DO have a perspective worth posting but just refuse to be polite? However, you seem eager to assert the specific blunders I have posted. Much like the other guy... Boy, you folks are something else!
If we are fans and forthright sentient beings, should we not at least refrain from snide comments and condescending criticism? I'm not posting these threads to invite petty mockery, but rather to reaffirm that the living Soul of Sumo is still vital and commands our utmost respect. I will not blame myself, alone, for this sniping. Regardless of the fact that I tend to leap before I look, I am just trying to communicate something I am inspired by and humbled by. So, do you think sarcasm and disdain are honorable? You don't feel the need to embrace new people with honest opinions? Even idiots and fools deserve a reasonable response. But then again...who is really the fool? The statistician measuring every minute discrepancy or the child filled with wonder at great things abounding within their awareness? Look, I don't want to quarrel. What I want to know isn't your take on my wording/statistics, rather your heart-felt IDEAS about the current state of affairs in the world of Grand Sumo. Soooooo, back to the beginning, What do you have to say in response to the initial thread? Let's bury the hatchet and unite under the banner of Sumo.

Hazuki_47
9th May 2007, 08:16
Hi Jon,

I don't have too much to add to the thread, but my impression is that there is little interest at this forum in Sumo. It is mainly devoted to martial arts, which I don't think Sumo really fits into. (at least in its modern form) Good luck trying to drum up some enthusiasm though!

I have been living in Japan for many years and used to enjoy watching the exploits of Takanohana, Akebono etc., but don't get too excited about the current state of Sumo. I agree that Asashoryu is very dominant, which tends to suck a lot of the drama out of it. I suspect the overall level is not what it used to be, which maybe explains the inconsistency and lack of competitiveness among the rikishi.

Knowing nothing about boxing, I have no idea if the comparison to Rocky Marciano is accurate!

MikeWilliams
9th May 2007, 10:19
I love sumo, and I'm very interested in it - but like most spectator sports I require a regular TV fix to maintain that interest, something I sadly don't have access to in the UK at the moment.

So while I have nothing much I can add to these threads, please keep the discussions going - I appreciate them!

jonpalombi
10th May 2007, 02:09
Hi Jon,

I have been living in Japan for many years and used to enjoy watching the exploits of Takanohana, Akebono etc., but don't get too excited about the current state of Sumo. I agree that Asashoryu is very dominant, which tends to suck a lot of the drama out of it. I suspect the overall level is not what it used to be, which maybe explains the inconsistency and lack of competitiveness among the rikishi.

Knowing nothing about boxing, I have no idea if the comparison to Rocky Marciano is accurate!

Thank You for your kindness. I don't blame you for not getting too excited about the current state of Sumo. Back in the day, Grand Sumo was by the very definition of the phrase, "Martial Art". Frankly, in my opinion, it still is. What defines a practice of combat as "ART" is the inherent Cultural and Spiritual quality it conveys. Any superior athlete can come up victorious. However, blended with honor and discipline, something quite profound blossoms in the mix. The obvious Confucian and Shinto overtones encoded in the Ancient Art of Sumo, are quite apparent in almost every aspect of the practice. There is no doubt that Sumo is a true and living tradition of martial arts.
As far as the current Mongolian domination, I still feel these guys are sincere champions. Whether they could handle the kind of classic Sumo brilliance the previous generation generated...that's the significant question.
As far as the Heavyweight Boxing Championship, Rocky Marciano was an amazing warrior of the 1950's era. Regardless of his tremendous fighting Spirit, he never faced anyone as qualified as himself, during their physical prime. So far, neither has Asashoryu. I thought the parallel quite fitting.

Take care, Jon Palombi

John McCulloch
11th May 2007, 03:25
Jon, thanks for starting this thread. It's about time that some life was breathed into the sumo forum.

I agree that Asashoryu looks like a strong yokozuna right now in part due to the lack of serious challengers. If I remember correctly, the only other yokozuna during his tenure has been the "late stage" Musashimaru who was pretty banged up with injuries and couldn't effectively compete.

The most likely challenger in the wings appears to be Hakuho - he certainly has the strength and skill to become yokozuna. The only issue he has is consistency. He can be dynamite one basho and so-so the next, whereas Asashoryu can usually force a play off even in his worst basho.

What would happen if Baruto developed speed and great technique? :p

My dream match would be between a healthy Asashoryu and peak career Chiyonofuji since they are both relatively small, very strong and have/had a wide arsenal of techniques. My guess is that Chiyonofuji would win but it would be a hard fought bout.

I love sumo!

John McCulloch

jonpalombi
12th May 2007, 03:48
Jon, thanks for starting this thread. It's about time that some life was breathed into the sumo forum.

My dream match would be between a healthy Asashoryu and peak career Chiyonofuji since they are both relatively small, very strong and have/had a wide arsenal of techniques. My guess is that Chiyonofuji would win but it would be a hard fought bout.

I love sumo!

John McCulloch

I agree wholeheartedly! Sounds like a wonderful match. Chiyonofuji was perhaps the greatest smaller-Yokozuna of recorded time. Some of the things I love the most about Asashoryu are the Chionofuji-like qualities he embodies. While I doubt Asashoryu could beat Chiyonofuji, it would be a lively series of matches. Funny, his style is more like Chionofuji's than Chiyotaikai's...such is the nature of existence.
On this eve before the first day of the Tokyo Grand Sumo Basho, I am eager to see what awaits us over the upcoming 15 days! Can Hakuho present another winning performance? Will he become the second Mongolian Yokozuna? How will the other Ozeki rally their spirits, determined to challenge Hakuho's emergence? These questions and many others, will surface, very soon, on the live NHK broadcasts. I am on the edge of my seat!
Hey, where did you have your picture taken with those two rikishis? Have you bee to Japan recently? Thank you for your positive response.

Yours in Martial Spirit, Jon Palombi

jonpalombi
12th May 2007, 04:20
[QUOTE=MikeWilliams]I love sumo, and I'm very interested in it - but like most spectator sports I require a regular TV fix to maintain that interest, something I sadly don't have access to in the UK at the moment.

I agree with you, Sumo is best followed as a spectator sport. In the USA, we have TV Japan. They broadcast NHK network on cable and satellite transmission. If you don't have it available, it should be soon. Keep a good thought! We have TV access to Japan, Korea and China, from our satellite dish. Have you ever seen Korean Ssirum wrestling? It's quite similar to Sumo...or the other way around? Koreans claim it is the older Art. It wouldn't surprise me. Did you know that the ancient Chinese Art of grappling, Shuai Chiao, is written with the same characters that Sumo does? Interesting stuff...

Take care, Jon Palombi

John McCulloch
13th May 2007, 04:53
Hey, where did you have your picture taken with those two rikishis? Have you bee to Japan recently?

The picture was taken at the Nihon Sumo Kyokai regional demonstration in Yamato, Kanagawa-ken in October 2005 (my last trip to Japan). The rikishi on the right is fan favorite Kitazakura. Unfortunately I can't remember the name of fellow on the left (but luckily I doubt he reads this forum :) ).

The only other sumo event I've attended was Day 11 of the November Basho (Fukuoka) in 2003.

All the best,

John McCulloch

jonpalombi
14th May 2007, 03:42
Lucky you! My wife Alice and I would love to visit Japan. The rikishi on the left is Kasuganishiki. He is the guy that sweeps his arms over his head and stretches himself backwards, after throwing salt. Kind of like a large cat. Kitazakura, as we all know, likes to toss as much salt in the air as he can. He emulates Mitoizumi in this regard. Sometimes it's the character of the rikishis, as much as their performance that makes for a good tournament. So far, this one looks to be a good one. Sadly, the great Ozeki Tochiazuma has retired because of complications from a stroke. I will miss him very much.
Thanks for the positive feedback. Enjoy the Tokyo Basho.

Later, Jon