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risingsun
13th June 2007, 22:09
I've been in Goju ryu for a little over six years now and have practice meditation from the start of my training. For the past month, however, something odd has been happening when I meditate. I always meditate after I pratice but lately when I do, I get cold. Is this normal? Should I be concerned?
-Margeaux Ellis

Prince Loeffler
13th June 2007, 23:04
I've been in Goju ryu for a little over six years now and have practice meditation from the start of my training. For the past month, however, something odd has been happening when I meditate. I always meditate after I pratice but lately when I do, I get cold. Is this normal? Should I be concerned?
-Margeaux Ellis

Cold as in ? temperature wise ? Personality wise ? emotional ?

risingsun
13th June 2007, 23:18
Temperature wise.

Prince Loeffler
13th June 2007, 23:21
Temperature wise.


How does that make you feel ? Good ? Bad ?

BTW, you need to include your name in every post. Thanks

risingsun
13th June 2007, 23:26
I really don't know how to ansewer that. As far as my mind I feel refreshed and rejuvinated. But as far as my body.....cold. I'm just kind of freaked out because it has never happened in the previous years, why now?
-Margeaux Ellis

Flintstone
14th June 2007, 14:34
Actually my temperature raises when I do meditation... Is it me who should be worried?

Jim Wilson
14th June 2007, 19:59
I've been in Goju ryu for a little over six years now and have practice meditation from the start of my training. For the past month, however, something odd has been happening when I meditate. I always meditate after I pratice but lately when I do, I get cold. Is this normal? Should I be concerned?
-Margeaux Ellis

Feelings of body temperature change during meditation, either feeling warmer or colder, are common. (They have to do with shifts in chi/ki circulation.) I wouldn't be concerned about it, unless you are also sensing other signs of possible ill-health, or imbalance, during normal activities.

You mentioned that you meditate after practice. This means that you meditate after some exercise; it is normal for the body to cool off somewhat after exercise. I don't know you, but my guess is that you are becoming more sensitive to bodily sensations; this cooling off after exercise may have always been there, but as your meditation practice progresses you gain a greater sensitivity to nuances of bodily sensation.

If this continues to be a problem there are various remedies. First, put a blanket around you while meditating. Second, is your window open? If it is, does that allow a breeze in the room? If so, either close the window or perhaps place a curtain in front of it to modify the breeze. Third, a warm cup of tea before meditation will often relieve these kinds of sensations. Use black tea, not green. In traditional Chinese medicine, green teas are slightly cooling and black teas are slightly warming, and you want a slightly warming liquid. Do not drink a lot of the tea as this may send you to the bathroom; just a small cup, enough to warm you up. Fourth, do you use incense? Some incense have a cooling effect; the more sweet and floral forms of incense tend in this direction. If you do you use incense I would recommend a more resin or bark based type such as pine, sandalwood, cedar or sage.

Finally, ask your teacher about it.

Hope these suggestions are of some assistance.

Best wishes,

Jim Wilson

risingsun
16th June 2007, 01:09
Thank you for the information.
I feel a lot better now knowing what you have told me. I will try your suggestions and hopefully be more compfortable in my meditative state.
Thank you,
Margeaux Ellis :)

Brian Owens
23rd June 2007, 10:42
...I'm just kind of freaked out because it has never happened in the previous years, why now?
Because you're a year older?

Changes in muscle mass, subdermal fat, basal metabolic rate, diet, hydration, etc. can all affect how our bodies cope with ambient temerature when he are sedentary; and meditation is, after all, a sedentary activity.

One can practice meditation without being an ascetic. If you feel cold, turn up the heat.

Michael Hodge
14th July 2007, 17:08
I always meditate after I pratice but lately when I do, I get cold. Is this normal? Should I be concerned?

This is not the place for answers to questions of this nature. If what you're experiencing are makyo, you should be deferring to a zen priest. Makyo are not things to be dealt with lightly, especially in the absence of somebody qualified enough to assist you when they arise. Some makyo are far more intense than others, but in the interest of safety and guidance, I'd suggest you immediately align yourself with someone in the know.

Michael Hodge

Brian Owens
14th July 2007, 20:23
This is not the place for answers to questions of this nature. ...
I disagree. I think this is one place, among many, to ask such questions.

As for asking a Zen priest, there are more types of meditation than just Zen meditation. If it had been a religious question...a question specifically about Buddhist practices or principles...then I might agree, but it wasn't.

Michael Hodge
15th July 2007, 01:43
As for asking a Zen priest, there are more types of meditation than just Zen meditation.

This is decidely not a issue of religion. Meditation is not Zen's property alone; it holds no monopoly on it. All meditation serves one purpose -- to bring the mind to one-pointedness, and along the way, there are things one must be ready to deal with, a lot of which can be downright frightening to the psyche. Unless any one of us here have endured makyo and can claim expertise in assisting a person who experiences it, the most rational thing that can be done is refer the topic creator to a person with sufficient qualifications. Anything else is potentially dangerous for him. These things are not to be trifled with. Without correct and proper guidance, all sorts of potentially ugly fallout may result.

With all due respect, what are we to do when his cold bouts turn into inexplicable pangs of fear, which are also makyo? Continue playing armchair therapists? I recommended a priest because they are trained in these matters through experience of their own. I could also recommend a psychiatrist, but one's mileage may vary with them as they could only diagnose makyo insofar as the notes they've collected in similar cases.

Michael Hodge

Harlan
15th July 2007, 13:35
Well, Zen priests are few and far between, and getting advice from one can be as problematic as going to the internet. Telling someone to see a priest, or even a therapist, is passing the buck.

Answer: Yes. It's normal...you're human so how could it not be normal? Does everyone experience the same things...no. It's in your mind/body...so you have to learn to deal with it. Reading and questions and 'advice' can only give you a framework to define your experiences...not answer them.

If sitting results in bothersome physiological effects...do something else. Like practice your MA. That is good moving meditation, keeps the mind/body connected and discharges energies.

erict
16th July 2007, 20:16
when you meditate, your body enters a state of relaxation. This triggers your parasympathetic nervous system to become activated while at the same time your sympathetic nervous system becomes inhibited. What the consequences can be is that the parasympathetic is used for relaxation/metabolism which causes your blood to be diverted from your muscles/skin to your core(abdomen,organs). as a result you may feel cold in your periphery. where are you getting cold? is it in the hands and feet? if so then that would explain it. if it is overall internal body temperature, then some other underlying cause might be the reason.

Brian Owens
17th July 2007, 05:19
...Unless any one of us here have endured makyo and can claim expertise in assisting a person who experiences it, the most rational thing that can be done is refer the topic creator to a person with sufficient qualifications. ...
Well, I have experienced getting cold during meditation, which is what the OP asked about. Further, I have assisted others during meditation, and even wrote a short paper on the topic -- Zen and the Art of Massage --that was used at Ashmead College in several of their programs. By your reasoning, that makes me qualified to answer the question.

So I did.

Flintstone
17th July 2007, 15:15
So it seems my temperature should decrease, while actually it's increasing when I do meditate. Any light on this?

Thanks.

Michael Hodge
17th July 2007, 20:17
I have assisted others during meditation, and even wrote a short paper on the topic..

This is the Jesus said line of argument. I recognize it. One tends to take a direct line to some source deemed an infallible authority, as if one should be struck down should he dare question its claim on fact.

Regardless, when YOU have experienced and transcended the full range of symptoms indicating deepening concentration -- ALL the makyo from mild sensory disturbances to monsterous panic attacks and sudden and unexplainable fears of death, then you may claim authority and assist others. Essays do not an expert make. Grant yourself firsthand knowledge through complete and total experience, then advise. It's only fair to the topic creator, who by all indications has experienced a mild makyo. Once again, anything else represents a potential risk for him.

Of course, if I am greatly mistaken in assuming you have not experienced deep makyo, then by all means strike what I've said and continue advising. Probability is on my side, however. The vast majority have neither experienced makyo. Fewer have even completely endured them. This makes most people unfit to advise in situations like this.

Frankly I feel there's nothing more that needs to be said on the matter. Do whatever your heart directs you to do.

Michael Hodge

DDATFUS
17th July 2007, 20:40
Regardless, when YOU have experienced and transcended the full range of symptoms indicating deepening concentration -- ALL the makyo from mild sensory disturbances to monsterous panic attacks and sudden and unexplainable fears of death, then you may claim authority and assist others. Essays do not an expert make. Grant yourself firsthand knowledge through complete and total experience, then advise. It's only fair to the topic creator, who by all indications has experienced a mild makyo. Once again, anything else represents a potential risk for him.

Michael, if I recall correctly Brian's advice was along the lines of "if you feel cold, it could just be your body cooling down after a workout; try turning up the heat." If the original poster really is just experiencing a normal cooling of body temperatures, then Brian's advice (and the advice of Jim, who recommended a blanket) is spot-on. If the original poster is experiencing makyo, then Brian's advice will probably not help. I think that someone on this forum saying, "try using a blanket or turning up the heat," is harmless; if the problem persists, the original poster will know to look elsewhere for advice.

Jim Wilson
18th July 2007, 18:12
Allejandro:

There is no "should" regarding particular bodily sensations during meditation. The sensation of rising body temperature, feeling warmer, is common, though not universal. If it is not interfering with your meditation I would not be concerned about it. If you meditate long enough this will pass, to be replaced by some other kinds of bodily sensation. As always, if this is a problem, talk to your teacher about it.

Michael:

I agree that the internet is not the best way to acquire information about the meditative process. The first choice is always first hand instruction from a qualified meditator, meaning someone who has meditated regularly for ten years or more. On the other hand, the internet does offer the possibility of accessing a scope of experience that might not be available in one's local dojo; this can be an advantage.

It is difficult to know on the basis of a single internet posting whether someone is experiencing makyo or actual bodily sensations. I take a very practical approach to questions along these lines and assume that they are simple bodily sensations unless there is reason to infer otherwise. It is kind of my default approach. In most cases there are very simple remedies to obstacles in meditation such as shifting one's posture, slight changes in environmental setting, changes in clothing which might be restricting circulation, etc.

Best wishes,

Jim Wilson

Flintstone
18th July 2007, 19:11
Thank you, Jim. Actually it's not really interfering with my meditation, it's only that it's annoying how in cold weather you can feel hot, even sweating your gi, by "doing nothing."

Craig Justice
7th June 2008, 01:24
I know this is an old post, and I'm not sure what makyo is, but I am pretty sure someone was the first to discover it and they managed on their own somehow or how else would we know about it? I think it can be taken lightly on this fact alone.

Brian Owens
29th June 2008, 20:17
...I'm not sure what makyo is...
Makyo -- 魔境 -- is a Japanese term used by Zen Buddhists to describe sensory disturbances that some people experience during prolonged Zen meditation.

glad2bhere
1st July 2008, 15:52
Makyo -- 魔境 -- is a Japanese term used by Zen Buddhists to describe sensory disturbances that some people experience during prolonged Zen meditation.

I don't know if this will help the discussion as it seems to be carrying many overtones. What I can add, though, is that various sensations while sitting are often reported during SESSHIN at the monastery to which I belong. The reports are usually from folks from outside of the monastery and are usually a function of the intense and regular practice. Some of the feelings are those of heat or cold, while others may be itching, buzzing, vertigo, intrusive thoughts and strong bursts of emotion. What I find most helpful and what many are guided to do is not to attach any particular meaning or importance to these senations. Unless one has a known health issue, most of these events are the mind and body responding to being asked to do something that they would not ordinarily be doing. Much later in practice, some folks actually introduce challenges to their meditation by performing their practice under circumstances where there is strong intrusion through the sensory system such as meditating in cold water, in an insect-infested location, where there are intermittant loud noises and so forth. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

Brian Owens
1st July 2008, 20:00
...What I find most helpful and what many are guided to do is not to attach any particular meaning or importance to these senations.
I agree.

The mountain, though touched by the clouds, is not moved by them.

I'll also add that if what one is disturbed by is more than an annoyance...more than mild unusual sensations...then it might be well to see a doctor -- either medical or psychological, as indicated by the circumstances.