Donn F. Draeger [Archive]

Fred27

27th June 2007, 10:02

Donn Draeger, a man who needs no introduction, passed on in 1982.

There now exists an entry for Captain Donald F. Draeger (http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Draeger&GSfn=Donn&GSbyrel=all&GSdyrel=all&GSob=n&GRid=18943943&) on the online database "Findagrave.com".

TommyK

28th June 2007, 01:45

I believe Draeger was a Major, perhaps someone like Joe Svinth could set this straight?

Joseph Svinth

28th June 2007, 05:37

Tom --

Both contemporary newspaper accounts and descriptions by people who knew DD at the Pentagon Judo Club are unequivocal that he was wearing gold oak leaves rather than railroad tracks when they knew him ca. 1954-1955. Nonetheless, the gravestone is equally unequivocal in noting that he was a captain. In hopes of resolving this question, some months back I wrote to NARA St. Louis, to see if I could get a copy of his DD214. However, it took NARA a couple years to get me a DD214 on another fellow, so I'm not holding my breath in the interim.

DustyMars

28th June 2007, 09:35

His permanent rank was Captain. He was a temporary Major during the Korean thing, war or whatever, and reverted back to his real frank upon retirement. He was a regular Marine and would most likely have been promoted before retirement if he were a reservist. I remember him as a Major.

Neil Yamamoto

28th June 2007, 16:49

Jon Bluming told me that Draeger was a major in Korea and reverted to the rank of Captain upon discharge. Another confirmation of what's been said already.

CEB

28th June 2007, 17:31

Tom --

Both contemporary newspaper accounts and descriptions by people who knew DD at the Pentagon Judo Club are unequivocal that he was wearing gold oak leaves rather than railroad tracks when they knew him ca. 1954-1955. Nonetheless, the gravestone is equally unequivocal in noting that he was a captain. In hopes of resolving this question, some months back I wrote to NARA St. Louis, to see if I could get a copy of his DD214. However, it took NARA a couple years to get me a DD214 on another fellow, so I'm not holding my breath in the interim.

You can request anybody's DD214? I don't like that. There is personal identity information on that thing. I would think with all the identity theft risks there are today you could not do that.

Fred27

28th June 2007, 18:52

Jon Bluming told me that Draeger was a major in Korea and reverted to the rank of Captain upon discharge. Another confirmation of what's been said already.

Was he a "breveted" Major?

Joseph Svinth

29th June 2007, 01:09

"Frocked" is the term in the Marine Corps. Frocking was my guess as to what happened, but because it is only a guess, I didn't want to state that for the record.

***

Yes, one can request a DD214 for any deceased military member. You can write a letter or use SF-180. See http://www.archives.gov/st-louis/military-personnel/standard-form-180.html . If you are not a relative, you get an abbreviated version of the form. If you're a relative, then you can get the whole thing.

Fred27

4th July 2007, 09:24

Found a very nice DD tribute on Kaminoda Tsunemoris (jodo) official Nihon Jodokai website: http://homepage3.nifty.com/-samidare-/ennkaku3.html

I cant read the language of course but it looks fairly obvious the site is about paying tribute to Donn. Too bad the photos are in such small format though.

Earl Hartman

11th July 2007, 22:28

I just took a look at the "Samurai Week" blurb on Kaminoda Sensei's website. You can click on the thumbnail to enlarge it.

Having never seen it with my own eyes, I have to assume that is the seitei version of the honte no kamae. If so, then one must conclude that seitei and koryu jo are very different indeed. If such a basic kamae is that different, the differences that result from it cannot help but be felt throughout the entire art.

Gusta in Japan

11th July 2007, 23:22

"Samurai Week" blurb
I cannot find this 'Samurai week' item. Can you give the link. Thank you.

Earl Hartman

11th July 2007, 23:35

Just click on the link Fred 27 provided. It's in there.

Gusta in Japan

11th July 2007, 23:42

Just click on the link Fred 27 provided. It's in there.I think I'm too slow. I clicked the link and checked each article carefully but I just can't find any 'Samurai Week' article. Perhaps my browser is filtering something out. I see links for three articles Camp Bushindo, Japan Week and a newspaper biography.

Earl Hartman

11th July 2007, 23:47

Sorry. It was the "Japan Week" thing.

Fred27

12th July 2007, 03:42

I just took a look at the "Samurai Week" blurb on Kaminoda Sensei's website. You can click on the thumbnail to enlarge it.

Having never seen it with my own eyes, I have to assume that is the seitei version of the honte no kamae. If so, then one must conclude that seitei and koryu jo are very different indeed. If such a basic kamae is that different, the differences that result from it cannot help but be felt throughout the entire art.

I dont know much about Kaminoda Senseis jo-work, but you can find an example of his jo-work in this clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfSlvbvLqNg).

Earl Hartman

12th July 2007, 19:56

It looks like a standard Kirikake from the jo side, pretty much as I have learned it, but the swordwork is very seitei-ized in that the swordsman takes a jodan posture from hasso before he cuts. I have been taught to cut ditrectly from the hasso posture, without "cocking" the sword overhead, and we cut kesa as opposed to straight down.

In any case, it is impossible to tell what Kaminoda Sensei's honte no kamae is like from this video.

Also, I assume that Kaminoda Sensei keeps his seitei and his koryu quite separate, as is only to be expected.

Steve Delaney

30th July 2007, 01:30

The swordsman in that clip was Yoneno sensei, he's a hachidan in both kendo & ZNKR iai (Muso Shinden-ryu) which may account for the "seitei-ized" form. However, since this is an embu on film, it's possible to surmise that he may just be putting on a "show" to help the uninitiated understand what is going on. I've done similar at embu before in Japan several times.

Gusta in Japan

30th July 2007, 10:27

The swordsman in that clip was Yoneno sensei, he's a hachidan in both kendo & ZNKR iai
..and Shinto Muso Ryu Menkyo Kaiden directly from Shimizu Sensei.

Steve Delaney

30th July 2007, 14:57

..and Shinto Muso Ryu Menkyo Kaiden directly from Shimizu Sensei.

Yup, that's right.

Earl Hartman

30th July 2007, 21:32

If the audience is uninitiated, why would seitei-izing an enbu allow them to understand what is going on any better than a koryu enbu? If they don't know jo, one is as good as the other.

I am not knocking anyone's credentials or skill. My teacher learned directly from Shimizu Sensei also, so I think the point of who learned from whom is moot. Regardless of rank, the swordwork looks very setei-ized to me and is not how I have been taught, that's all.

Gusta in Japan

30th July 2007, 23:58

If the audience is uninitiated, why would seitei-izing an enbu allow them to understand what is going on any better than a koryu enbu? If they don't know jo, one is as good as the other.

I am not knocking anyone's credentials or skill. My teacher learned directly from Shimizu Sensei also, so I think the point of who learned from whom is moot. Regardless of rank, the swordwork looks very setei-ized to me and is not how I have been taught, that's all.
This too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WwqK_eZw2o

Fred27

31st July 2007, 11:54

Speaking of Menkyo Kaiden. I noticed it's described as Donn Draeger having achieved Menkyo Kaiden in Shinto Muso-ryu posthumously.
Had he already started with the 5 gokui at the time of his death? Or was it a sort of honorary posthumous title?

Please note: I know about his credentials and dedication to the Arts and I hope I don't come off as disrespectful for making this inquiry.