Judo or aikido

[rogozub]

I want to ask for a little tip. I am deciding what to start training of the two, and one of the things that will influence the answer is where would a beard be less of a disadvantage? :)

I am 18 years old, and starting to grow a beard. And hair. I had long hair- to half of my back, but i cut it and i am now growing it again along with a beard. I plan to have both long. No cutting, triming...

I saw that Morihei Ueshiba had a beard, but i am a little more atracted to judo... Do you know judokas with long beards or hair? Is it a problem for them?

SM

[Joseph Svinth]

At least in the USA, hair length has not been a significant problem in judo since the late 1960s.

[Chris McLean]

Judo my friend Aikido people are way to civilized.

[DDATFUS]

I could imagine long hair being a bit of a problem during judo newaza if you were wearing it loose instead of tying it up before randori; it's easy to picture long hair getting trapped beneath an opponent's knee or somesuch. However, I've seen several girls with fairly long hair practicing judo at our dojo and they don't seem to have much trouble.

I have a tiny bit of experience with both arts, and my advice to you would be to try as many local aikido dojo and as many local judo dojo as you can, then decide which one is the best fit for you. Sometimes it can be as much about the people as the art.

[TommyK]

Greetings,

Supposedly, Jigro Kano (the Founder of Judo) commented after seeing Aikido that it (Aikido) was the perfect Judo. Joe Svinth, any comments to this tale?

Regards,

TommyK

[PRehse]

When I did my Dan promotion shiai I shaved my chest hair - does that count.

I would go for what attracts you and not worry about the hair. As for Ueshiba M. when he was young and fighting fit - there was no beard.

[rogozub]

At least in the USA, hair length has not been a significant problem in judo since the late 1960s.
It was until 60s?


Judo my friend Aikido people are way to civilized.
Ha, ha.... Ha? I don't get it...

[MikeWilliams]

Seems like a slightly bizarre criterion for choosing a martial art, if you don't mind me saying so.

Comments from Jigoro Kano notwithstanding, Judo and Aikido are very different in terms of how they are trained, so go and join in a couple of classes of both and see which you prefer.

In both arts you will have to tie long hair up and out of the way. As for beards, I used to roll with a couple of Islamic dudes doing BJJ who both had long beards, and it never seemed to be a problem. (Short sharp spiky stubble can give you a competitive edge in newaza though ;) )

Aikido is probably more suited to hippies, I reckon...

(Just kidding, LOL)

[rogozub]

I'm not a hippie... :rolleyes:

Now, not about the beard and hair, can someone who practised both od the arts tell me for which one you have to use less strenght? Or which one is better for the small guy?

[PRehse]

I was sitting waiting for my turn to compete for promotion when I saw one of the most awsome things. In Japan there are no weight classes for promotion and I saw a guy move in and throw a guy 50% heavier up and over his head. It was over in a second, the little guy left with a smile on his lips, the big guy and the rest of us were stunned.

Size matters - but every now and then the magic happens.

Both guys had short hair.

[MarkF]

I want to ask for a little tip. I am deciding what to start training of the two, and one of the things that will influence the answer is where would a beard be less of a disadvantage? :)

I am 18 years old, and starting to grow a beard. And hair. I had long hair- to half of my back, but i cut it and i am now growing it again along with a beard. I plan to have both long. No cutting, triming...

I saw that Morihei Ueshiba had a beard, but i am a little more atracted to judo... Do you know judokas with long beards or hair? Is it a problem for them?

SM


I know one, and I see him every time I look in the mirror. It isn't really a problem as long as you consider what an attacker might do with it. In shiai, it came become a tool to your advantage at least as much as being a problem, but I agree with Mike and any others who recommend trying both, though if you do, you will probably like judo better. After a decade or so this may change.


Mark

[rogozub]

Size matters - but every now and then the magic happens.
Every now and then?
Isn't judo (and aikido too) suposed to be an art where the small guy has a chance against the big guy... But looking around judo sites and pictures on them, i haven't really seen much small judokas.. Unlike on, i don't know- wing chun sites, where in almoust every picture there a small guy showing a move... Maybe 'cause they're all chinese..... :rolleyes:

[PRehse]

Seems you already know all there is to know.

Have fun

[Woody]

Aikido is probably more suited to hippies, I reckon...
Yes, I can affirm this. I am a hippie and I love aikido. :D

[MikeWilliams]

There are plenty of small judoka, don't worry! And yes a small, skilled judoka will have generally an advantage over a large, unskilled one unless they make a mistake. Shiai has wight divisions (so do gradings, sometimes), but in randori you'll get to mix it up with whoever shows up.

[Off-topic: Stefan, I love your sig!]

[DDATFUS]

Every now and then?
Isn't judo (and aikido too) suposed to be an art where the small guy has a chance against the big guy...

Yeah, but think of it this way: a small guy usually has a disadvantage against a larger opponent. Judo or aikido could improve his chances, but he's still starting from behind. A small but extremely well-trained man might end up having an advantage over a big guy who doesn't know how to fight at all, but there are limits to that. The bigger your opponent is, the better your technique would have to be to make up for the size difference. He could do the techniques incorrectly-- relying on muscle power and size to force a throw to work rather than using proper body movement-- and it would still work against you. But because your muscles on their own wouldn't be enough to move him, you would have to be moving much more correctly to make techniques work.

To illustrate, I just started doing judo very recently. A few weeks ago, I was doing randori against someone who is much smaller and much younger than me, but also much more experienced. It was very interesting. There were clearly times when the fact that I had a huge weight advantage on him really helped me-- at one point during newaza, I pretty much just fell on him. Ruined whatever technique he was trying at the time. Then again, for all my size advantage, he did pretty well, so his experience and skill counted for a lot.

[P Goldsbury]

I want to ask for a little tip. I am deciding what to start training of the two, and one of the things that will influence the answer is where would a beard be less of a disadvantage? :)

I am 18 years old, and starting to grow a beard. And hair. I had long hair- to half of my back, but i cut it and i am now growing it again along with a beard. I plan to have both long. No cutting, triming...

I saw that Morihei Ueshiba had a beard, but i am a little more atracted to judo... Do you know judokas with long beards or hair? Is it a problem for them?

SM

Hello,

Both arts focus on close body contact, rather like wrestling, and there are no rules in aikido. So, in aikido, if you have long hair or a long beard and you attacked me, I would most definitely use your hair or your beard to defeat you.

Now you might say, 'This is not fair'. To which I would reply, Aikido is an art of self-defence. There are no rules about how to deal with the hirsute.

Best wishes,

[rogozub]

t one point during newaza, I pretty much just fell on him. Ruined whatever technique he was trying at the time.
Ouch...


Now you might say, 'This is not fair'
I guess I'd do the same... I'm just thinking would i have a better chance as as judoka or aikidoka against a someone who would attack me on the street, who would of course use my hair and beard against me...

I guess the bottom line would be: (exiting the judo aikido boundaries) what would the best martial art for a small guy with a long beard and hair to learn as a self defence art?


Off-topic: Stefan, I love your sig!
It just gets funnier every time.. :lol:

[gendzwil]

If you're looking for self-defence, judo is the quicker route. Aikido is really interesting but my opinion is that it takes longer to develop workable techniques against non-practitioners.

If you are looking for fitness, generally judo classes are a tougher work-out. Long hair gets in the way in any martial art, it will be your choice and headache to deal with.

Weight and size will always be an advantage in an empty-handed fight. There are weight classes in judo competition for good reason. Both arts provide tools to help the smaller guy.

FWIW I have 3 years of judo as an adult and another 6 as a kid with a long break in-between but only a year of aikido. So I consider myself a beginner at judo and having had an introduction to aikido. If those kinds of self-evaluations vs time in class surprise you, maybe martial arts aren't for you.

[Joseph Svinth]

Yes, hair was an issue in USA judo during the mid-1960s. There were letters to the editor of Black Belt, etc., arguing about whether one should teach long-haired people at all. It showed disrespect to the tradition, etc. It wasn't just judo, either, as over in the Chinese martial art community, Cheng Man-ching took considerable flak for teaching long-haired males. Black folks with Afros really took heat, as the hair style was seen as signifying support for Black Power, a political movement that was generally unappreciated by conservative Asians and whites of that era.

In international freestyle competition, there is a requirement for beards to either be fully grown in or clean-shaven. The reason is that during groundwork, the chin is often used to gain advantage, and grinding in sandpaper stubble can be painful.

[Hissho]

Hello,

Both arts focus on close body contact, rather like wrestling, and there are no rules in aikido. So, in aikido, if you have long hair or a long beard and you attacked me, I would most definitely use your hair or your beard to defeat you.

Now you might say, 'This is not fair'. To which I would reply, Aikido is an art of self-defence. There are no rules about how to deal with the hirsute.

Best wishes,

Oh my, I do hope this is tongue in cheek. Because the unstated implication is that Judo, mere sport that it is, has rules, and no judoka would ever be able to grab the hair or beard of an attacker in an actual assault. Perhaps not even be able to defend himself because he'd be looking for the ref and waiting to hear "hajime!"

Aikido has just as many rules in its practice as Judo does. They just don't happen to be sportive. One of aikido's rules, and this one is a doozy, happens to be that your attackers fall for your technique. Of course judo has that too. In kata. In randori they don't. And randori is where you'll actually learn to fight - whether its sport competition OR self defense.


I can personally attest to the fact that not only are Judo nagewaza made more effective by a grip on your attackers long hair, so, too, are its shimewaza applicable using, say a ponytail or a gathered-up mullet instead of a collar.

[Chuck.Gordon]

Greetings,

Supposedly, Jigro Kano (the Founder of Judo) commented after seeing Aikido that it (Aikido) was the perfect Judo. Joe Svinth, any comments to this tale?

Regards,

TommyK

There are no articles in Japanese. What he said was likely more: "This is perfect budo." Not "the" pefect budo. He was also known to be very polite.

[john_lord_b3]

Yes, it's "perfect budo" which means it's so good that he allowed Mochizuki Minoru and later Tomiki Kenji to learn under Uyeshiba sensei.