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bu-kusa
2nd March 2006, 13:43
Hi there, Im trying to find out a little background on something called ''Daito Ryu Aiki Jujutsu Yamamoto-Ha'' that is being taught via the Kokusai Jujutsu Renmei (KJJR) of Shoto (Tsunehisa) Tanemura sensei, is this a varient from mainline Daito Ryu, or even from Hakko Ryu?

Thank you for your time, :)

George Kohler
3rd March 2006, 03:32
Yamamoto Kakuyoshi was one of the Takeda Sokaku's last student and received kyoju dairi from Takeda in 1941. Yamamoto taught several people that I know:
Sato Kinbei
Nagao Sensei
Kondo Katsuyuki (for only two days in 1972)

Here is english information on Yamamoto Kakuyoshi (Website of Sato Kinbei sensei's daughter) http://www.jujutsu.com/jujutsu/htm/english.htm

As far as Tanemura Sensei, he originally studied this branch from Sato Kinbei Sensei. After Sato Sensei passed away, Tanemura Sensei began studying Daito-ryu and Mugen Shinto-ryu under Nagao Sensei.

Here is Nagao Sensei's website http://www.aiki.jp/nagao/index.html

bu-kusa
3rd March 2006, 11:16
Thank you for your quick reply Kohler Sensei, I had just noticed the recent addition to Tanamura Soke list of qualifications and having just been exposed to some of the patterns I wanted to know a little more background of this lineage.

Again many thanks for your time, and for openly sharing this information.

Kopiller
5th March 2007, 13:10
I'm searching fot information about the claims of this dojo links to Daito ryu, they say that they are under the teachings of a sensei named ittosai Yoshiake Sudo that claims to be 37 headmaster of the daito ryu an head master of Daito ryu and master of Mugen ryu iaijutsu.

Here is the link to their webpage: http://personales.com/espana/madrid/butokudojo/

And links to two videos of their iai:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=05aBdJ-BJk0
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kVx5PhW5q-c

Simon Keegan
5th March 2007, 13:25
Ittosai Yamamoto (I think, off the top of my head) was a student of Takeda Sokaku and the Daito Ryu teacher of Sato Kimbei. Could they mean him?

Fred27
5th March 2007, 14:10
I'm searching fot information about the claims of this dojo links to Daito ryu, they say that they are under the teachings of a sensei named ittosai Yoshiake Sudo that claims to be 37 headmaster of the daito ryu an head master of Daito ryu and master of Mugen ryu iaijutsu.

Here is the link to their webpage: http://personales.com/espana/madrid/butokudojo/

And links to two videos of their iai:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=05aBdJ-BJk0
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kVx5PhW5q-c

The guy in the bottom YT-link..Is he actually doing a gyakute/Zatoichi draw?

Kopiller
5th March 2007, 16:21
Yes it can be, thanks Simon

john_lord_b3
6th March 2007, 04:07
I'm searching fot information about the claims of this dojo links to Daito ryu, they say that they are under the teachings of a sensei named ittosai Yoshiake Sudo that claims to be 37 headmaster of the daito ryu an head master of Daito ryu and master of Mugen ryu iaijutsu.

Here is the link to their webpage: http://personales.com/espana/madrid/butokudojo/

And links to two videos of their iai:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=05aBdJ-BJk0
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kVx5PhW5q-c

Nice website, thank you for posting the link. The articles is nice, I like this quote:

"..En la tradición marcial japonesa no se separa el cuerpo del espíritu: 'espíritu y cuerpo son una unidad'.."

It's the same thing in my Dojo, Budo does not separate between the corporeal existence and the spiritual existence, mind body and techniques are one (Shin Gi Tai Ichi)

My Spanish language abilities is very very limited BTW :)

Anyway, if the owner of this website can prove that he is affiliated with the inheritors of Yamamoto Kakuyoshi (Ittosai) sensei's Daito-ryu Yamamoto-Ha, then the Dojo can be considered as a legitimate Budo Dojo teaching a recognized version of Daito-ryu.

Yamamoto Kakuyoshi Ittosai was the last student of Takeda Sokaku, or so I was told. You can check www.jujutsu.com for details.

His real name was not Kakuyoshi, he changed it to honor Takeda Sokaku by using parts of Takeda's name ("Kakuyoshi" came from Takeda soKAKU Minamoto no MasaYOSHI) as his own.

Nathan Scott
10th July 2007, 05:45
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Nathan Scott
10th July 2007, 05:49
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Nathan Scott
10th July 2007, 05:59
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Nathan Scott
10th July 2007, 06:01
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DCS
2nd November 2009, 15:53
Allow me a bit of thread necromancy, please.

There is a spanish gentleman, Fernando Hidalgo, who has been spamming spanish forums claiming to be Jyushinkan Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu authorized teacher and representative of this school, while badmouthing at the same time every branch of Daito Ryu and its derived arts for not being the real deal.

He insists in Yamamoto Kakuyoshi not only received Menkyo Kaiden from Takeda S. but also Sokaku designed him inheritor of the art.

However, he doesn't welcome questions and asking him for further ellaboration about his claims only leads to weird and aggressive behaviour from his part.

I wonder if any of you could provide more info about this gentleman or updated info about the school he claims to represent.

Thanks in advance.


OTOH,

I also wonder if Katsuhiko Uzawa Sensei (http://www.bujindesign.com/seminar_reviews/2007_9_article_2.html) is a instructor in the same Jyushinkan, as the previously mentioned Fernando Hidalgo usually links to this seminar review for publiciting his dojo.

Regards.

Kendoguy9
2nd November 2009, 18:31
Hi Demetrio,

If memory serves he popped up on Aikido Journal's forum a few years ago and made the same claims and we got the same reaction. I asked Kondo Katsuyuki sensei about the menkyo kaiden. Kondo sensei trained with Yamamoto sensei a few times and Yamamoto sensei never claimed to have a menkyo kaiden to him, only a kyojudairi. I wonder about this line of Daito-ryu because Tanemura Shoto of the Gembukan ninjutsu fame claims to hold menkyo kaiden in Yamamoto's line of Daito-ryu as well. No one has ever been able to explain to me how someone can get a menkyo kaiden in an art from a teacher who never had one... Maybe they are all confusing menkyo kaiden with kyojudairi?

Best regards,

Hissho
2nd November 2009, 19:46
Could someone achieve a lower-than-menkyo kaiden rank, for example here the kyojudairi in mainline DR, then add to their confirmed experience with their own insights and developments, and then form their own ha or line and, as the founder of the ha, issue menkyo kaiden in their own line?

Not a comment on the quality of the teaching, but rather would this be viewed as legitimate? It would seem that at least when koryu were "shin" ryu, this kind of thing occurred. Or maybe it only did after founders of different ha were given full licenses?

Whether that is considered permissible within DR may be the question, I guess?

Nathan Scott
3rd November 2009, 00:47
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Flintstone
3rd November 2009, 10:57
Maybe they are all confusing menkyo kaiden with kyojudairi?
No, this is not the case here. Fernando Hidalgo is explicitily saying that it is a menkyokaiden NOT a kyojudairi. That he did see the certificate and got it translated, only to find that it IS a menkyokaiden.

Then he's not answering our questions, relying on the "you're not true believers" mantra and leave it like that. "It is none of my business to demonstrate you that we are the real deal, but we are" is his slogan in Spanish forums.

I tend to ignore him, but he's making business about it.

DDATFUS
3rd November 2009, 16:24
Then he's not answering our questions, relying on the "you're not true believers" mantra and leave it like that. "It is none of my business to demonstrate you that we are the real deal, but we are" is his slogan in Spanish forums.

Hmmm.... if it's none of his business to show you that they're the real deal, then that would seem to be a good reason for him to, you know, shut up about it.