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Prince Loeffler
13th August 2007, 20:05
Does anyone knows when and where did Karate shiai (Tournment) begun ? Did Kano influnced it ? Did Funakoshi started it ?

don
13th August 2007, 21:26
Does anyone knows when and where did Karate shiai (Tournment) begun ? Did Kano influnced it ? Did Funakoshi started it ?I know you'll get a better answer than this, but until then...

I think Cook's Shotokan, A Precise History discusses this. Didn't Nakayama, et al. hammer this out amid much university blookshed? Didn't he say he'd have to answer to Funakoshi in heaven for inflicting shiai on karate?

IIRC, the motivation was to keep up with kendo and judo whose competitions were strong draws to potential students.

Hope this helps.

DustyMars
13th August 2007, 21:44
Does anyone knows when and where did Karate shiai (Tournment) begun ? Did Kano influnced it ? Did Funakoshi started it ?

It must have started in Japan or the USA. Americans have always had some kumite type get togethers and the Japanese police were heavy into sporty karate, mainly shotokan. I don't think Funakoshi would approve but Motobu probably liked to mix it up ioth otehrs in contest. I rememebr on Okianwa sensei would grunt, turn a little red and look sternly at anyone who suggested karate shiai.

Jeff

Rob Alvelais
14th August 2007, 00:53
Prince,

I remember reading in one of Hassel's books that the first karate tournament was held in Japan by the JKA (Nakayama, Nishiyama et al.)


Rob

john_lord_b3
14th August 2007, 05:15
According to Wado tradition, the first Karate Shiai with current rules were organized by the people from Wadokai's University League. It was 1954.

The main propagators of Kumite Shiai was Otsuka sensei of Wado and Yamaguchi of Goju. If I am not mistaken, it was Nakayama of Shotokan who worked for Kata Shiai. Rumor has it that Nakayama modified several Shotokan Katas for the purpose of competitions, but I am not 100% sure of this.

Rob Alvelais
14th August 2007, 05:52
Rumor has it that Nakayama modified several Shotokan Katas for the purpose of competitions, but I am not 100% sure of this.

Asai sensei (JKS/IJKA)told me the same thing.

Rob

Prince Loeffler
14th August 2007, 06:08
Asai sensei (JKS/IJKA)told me the same thing.

Rob

Sigh ! :) Back to square one agaon...lol So far we have the Wado version and the JKA version.

don
14th August 2007, 17:18
Sigh ! :) Back to square one agaon...lol So far we have the Wado version and the JKA version.Isn't it ever thus?

john_lord_b3
15th August 2007, 04:27
Asai sensei (JKS/IJKA)told me the same thing.

Rob

Ah, I am very glad I am not the only one who heard about this. Asai sensei.. isn't he Asai Tetsuhiko sensei, Kata expert? I think I have a video of him...

In any case, no wonder Unsu is a favorite Kata in most tournaments :)

Rob Alvelais
16th August 2007, 16:09
Asai sensei.. isn't he Asai Tetsuhiko sensei, Kata expert? I think I have a video of him...



That's the guy.

Rob

Mushinto
10th January 2011, 19:52
Sigh ! :) Back to square one agaon...lol So far we have the Wado version and the JKA version.

I have also heard from the Japanese Goju people that Yamaguchi Gogen was responsible.

Here (http://www.uchinadi-kan.org/history/gogenyamaguchi.html) is one site that repeats that claim.

Who knows?

Martin H
11th January 2011, 12:10
Each style claim that they invented the wheel and that noone had thought of it before them.
What else is new?

Joseph Svinth
14th January 2011, 02:16
And don't forget the Renbukai. Before WWII, Renbukai was called Kanbukan. Kanbukan had a lot of Korean members, to include a fellow who became one of the pioneers of post-WWII Jidokwan.

Gibukai
23rd January 2011, 13:20
Hello,

according to R. Fujiwara, a noted Japanese budo / karate historian, it was in the summer time of 1928, that the "Karate Research Club" of the old Imperial University of Tokyo started its first competitions. For the sake of security, contestants wore a protection armor (bogu) during the kumite competitions. The members of this club were students of G. Funakoshi, who, however, petitioned against it and terminated his position as “Shihan” (teacher) at that club one year later.

Two subsequent examples of Funakoshi students “inventing” karate tournaments:

A chronicle of the Waseda University Karate Club, published in 2003, says about the year 1952:

"...Since that year (1952) a referee was attached to the free sparring exercises (jiyu-gumite). From that the university group tournament system of today proceeded..."

According to the documents of the Karate Club of the Keio University, the "Dai Nippon Gakusei Karatedo Renmei" (Great Japan Students Karate Federation) was founded as early as 1935 (November). In 1957 (November, again) the now called "Zen Nihon Gakusei Karatedo Renmei" (All Japan Students Karatedo Federation) celebrated its first "All Japan Students Championsship". Funakoshi's student, I. Obata, was a board member of this organization.

Regards,

Henning Wittwer