Is there any existing Kito-ryu outside Japan?

[john_lord_b3]

If I am not mistaken, years ago the good people from Mugendo (sorry I forgot your name kind sir) told us that the Nihon Kobudo Souran, a Kito-ryu group, still exists in Japan.

This Indonesian group below

http://users.cjb.net/jujitsu-kitoryu/index.html

claimed to be Kito-ryu. Also, the group in Indonesia they're affiliated with, (IJI, Institut Ju-Jitsu Indonesia) claimed to be Kyushin-ryu.

I just like to hear the opinions of you all good people in E-Budo about the possibilities of the existence of legitimate KORYU Kito-ryu and Kyushin-ryu organizations outside Japan, and whether the Indonesian groups are recognized by the Hombu in Japan or not.

Many thanks!

[john_lord_b3]

Interesting quote from their website:

"Kito Ryu sebagai aliran klasik jujitsu diakui sebagai yang membidani lahirnya dua gendai besar beladiri : Jigoro Kano dengan judonya dan Ueshiba (O Sensei) dengan aikidonya..."

Translation"

"Kito-ryu as a classical Ju-Jitsu system gave birth to two big gendai self-defense: Jigoro Kano's Judo and Ueshiba OSensei's Aikido. The principles of AIKI JUJITSU KITO-RYU is the fundamental of Aikido..."

:)

[john_lord_b3]

Sorry, here is a more complete quote

"Kito Ryu sebagai aliran klasik jujitsu diakui sebagai yang membidani lahirnya dua gendai besar beladiri : Jigoro Kano dengan judonya dan Ueshiba (O Sensei) dengan aikidonya. Prinsip aiki-jujitsu Kito Ryu menjadi dasar bagi beladiri aikido. Juga prinsip kuzushi no ri yang merupakan inti dari teknik nage wazza, menjadi dasar prinsip kodokan judo. Jigoro Kano adalah seorang master jujitsu aliran Kito Ryu, yang sebelumnya pernah dilatih oleh Ikubo Tanetoshi, seorang master Kito Ryu, mengambil beberapa prinsip dasar Kito Ryu sebagai dasar judo moderen. Terutama pada judo aliran "koshiki no kata" yang disebut-sebut sebagai pemelihara keaslian prinsip tradisi Kito Ryu.."

[Steve Delaney]

Ben,

AFAIK, there are no Kito-ryu jujutsu groups outside of Japan. Other than the Okayama Prefecture judo federation, there aren't any places outside of Japan.

Kyushin-ryu is also a dead school unfortunately. The ryuha is no longer extant in Japan. One of my budo sempai specializes in researching koryu from the Kyushu area. He met the son of Noda Jintaro who was the last Soke of the ryuha in Fukuoka. Unfortunately, the tradition has not been disseminated.

Kyushin Ichi-ryu was a member of the Nihon Kobudo Kyokai for some years, but apparently, they are no longer active either.

As someone who has had to translate English letters for the secretary of the Nihon Kobudo Shinkokai, the topic of Kyushin-ryu has come up repeatedly from both the UK, the Republic of Ireland and from Australia. The reply was that it is no longer active.

Hope this helps.

[john_lord_b3]

Many thanks Steve san for your help. In fact, your information are very useful. Perhaps now I can start persuading my countrymen to stop using the names of long-dead franchise, and start to stand on their own merits.

[jiujitsuka]

Ben,

AFAIK, there are no Kito-ryu jujutsu groups outside of Japan. Other than the Okayama Prefecture judo federation, there aren't any places outside of Japan.



Well I train in kito-ryu in Australia with a club that is apparently affiliated with a headquarters in the okayama prefecture. I wouldn't say it's dead but I do wonder at times where it will be 20 or 30yrs from now.
Also I have noticed that there is a lot of politics and a lot of difference of opinions that comes with this martial art and I think that that definately stunts it's growth and development quite a bit. So just because when you google kito ryu and come up with next to nothing dont believe its dead!
Also I noticed theres a bloke (which has been mentioned before in these forums i know) called bruce bethers or something in the USA who considers himself a 7th dan or something in this art. I'm very sceptical of this as the guy seems very reluctant to answer any questions regarding this (i know he has been emailed about it a few times) and seems to have so many dans and stuff that its a bit of a fairytale... in my opinion.

[Steve Delaney]

Well I train in kito-ryu in Australia with a club that is apparently affiliated with a headquarters in the okayama prefecture. I wouldn't say it's dead but I do wonder at times where it will be 20 or 30yrs from now.
Also I have noticed that there is a lot of politics and a lot of difference of opinions that comes with this martial art and I think that that definately stunts it's growth and development quite a bit. So just because when you google kito ryu and come up with next to nothing dont believe its dead!
Also I noticed theres a bloke (which has been mentioned before in these forums i know) called bruce bethers or something in the USA who considers himself a 7th dan or something in this art. I'm very sceptical of this as the guy seems very reluctant to answer any questions regarding this (i know he has been emailed about it a few times) and seems to have so many dans and stuff that its a bit of a fairytale... in my opinion.


Hello there. I beg your pardon, but I think you misread my previous post.

I didn't get my info off of google. I spent a lot of years in Japan with the Nihon Kobudo Shinkokai & Kyokai. Kito-ryu is not dead, that was never stated. It is preserved by the Okayama Judo Renmei. It's existance outside of Japan was doubtful, but as you have illustrated, not impossible, since your dojo has some affiliation. The simple case is, that for Kito-ryu jujutsu (The koryu, not the Kodokan Koshiki no kata), there is only the Okayama dojo and now, apparently the dojo that you train at.


I stated that Kyushin-ryu was a dead ryuha. It is no longer taught in Kyushu and the last soke of the school did not teach his son, so there is no isshi-soden (familial transmission of tradition). It doesn't have anything to do with Kito-ryu, other than it's another jujutsu ryuha.

Respect.

[mw17]

Hi there,

QUOTE: I stated that Kyushin-ryu was a dead ryuha. It is no longer taught in Kyushu and the last soke of the school did not teach his son, so there is no isshi-soden (familial transmission of tradition).

Seems like there's one in Queensland Australia, but very different as opposed to a koryu, see
www.kyushinryujujitsu.com
under headmaster Jim Stackpoole 7th Dan.

Is someone mistaken?

Regards
Matt

Matt White

[Steve Delaney]

Seems like there's one in Queensland Australia, but very different as opposed to a koryu, see
www.kyushinryujujitsu.com
under headmaster Jim Stackpoole 7th Dan.

Is someone mistaken?

Regards
Matt

Matt White


This has been covered a few times on e-budo Matt. Use the search function - The threads had rather a detailed history.

[mw17]

Thanks for that Steve. Plenty to read there!

Matt
Matt White