Aiki Krav Maga?

[Samurai Jack]

http://www.kravmaga-aiki.com/

Of course the aiki is Daito ryu Aiki Bujutsu

[elder999]

http://www.kravmaga-aiki.com/

Of course the aiki is Daito ryu Aiki Bujutsu

Fom the web page:



8th dan degree of Daito Ryu Aiki Bujutsu by Siegfried Boedeker soke 10th dan

Rumor has it that this "Aiki-ju-jitsu" and "Daito Ryu" certification traces lineage from Mr. Boedeker through Cliff Witcher and Martin J. Rogers of "Zen Ha Daito Ryu" (a.k.a. "Zen Kenpo Ryu") and thence to John Williams of "Saigo Ha Daito Ryu."

While that says enough for me, I don't know it for a fact, so to continue let's lok at what the guys webpage says about him elsewhere:



Through years of training Ami began feeling there is a missing component in the Krav Maga martial art, a component emphasizing more inner peace and harmony to counter the aggressive and harshness character of Krav- Maga. The answer to Ami's quest was discovered after participating in various martial art seminars in Europe, in the form of the Aikido martial art (a 'soft' martial art that flows with the force of an opponent's attack and uses this force against the aggressor) and begun training under Edmund Kern (8th degree in Takemusu Iwama Ryu Aikido). Following two years of intense training in seminars and private lessons from Edmond himself, Ami had earned his black belt in Aikido.

Following Ami's exposure to Aikido and ongoing seminars in Aikijitsu and Jiu-jitsu, he has started to form a new personal approach to martial arts. From a technical point of view this approach combines elements from the Krav Maga, Aikido and Jiu-jitsu. From an educational perspective he strived to pass down to his students the combination of the determination and aggressiveness typical to Krav Maga with the peacefulness and harmony of Aikido. At a relatively young age, Ami's ideas have led him to branch out of the Krav Maga and form a new system called Aiki Krav Maga.

Now, that doesn't sound so bad...from my limited perspective-though it doesn't say whether he attained any further rank in Aikido, Edmund Kern is, to according to Aikido Journal, a proponent of Iwama style Aikido....

....couldn't get the clips to load...maybe ask Amir if he knows of the guy...I don't know.....

[Cady Goldfield]

Sorry, sounds like just aikido. "Peace and harmony" have nothing to do with martial effectiveness, nor do they have anything more than a very indirect metaphorical relationship to internal skills that exist in a very few Daito-ryu systems, and which are not likely to have been experienced by Ami.

[elder999]

Sorry, sounds like just aikido (meaning, sans actual internal Daito-ryu aiki skills) to me. "Peace and harmony" have nothing to do with martial effectiveness. In the dearth of information and hands-on experience with internal skills, people try to find some applicable meaning in those words, but come up short and instead think of them as having to do with some cosmic universal, warm-fuzzy power...

Well, yeah, but, like I said, what do I know? :)

[Cady Goldfield]

Oh phooey, Aaron, you had to reply while I was still editing.:D

[Brently Keen]

IMHO there is no real Daito-ryu influence here at all. He's obviously combined some elements of aikido with krav maga together to make his own hybrid style. At least he's not calling it "aikijujutsu". Like so many hybrid styles, however, there does not seem to be a coherent base or operating system to tie it all together.

Technically Daito-ryu (and Aikido) are primarily principle-based martial arts - and as such they each have their respective operating principles. All their techniques and strategies flow from and within the framework of their basic principles (or operating system). In the case of Aikido and Daito-ryu AJJ there are also philosophical principles that govern their respective approaches to dealing with conflict as well.

Krav Maga itself is a hybrid-composite martial art. To a certain extent it also has it's own "system" or governing principles, but it doesn't seem to be inherently consistent because it draws it's technical content from diverse arts with different operating systems, and thus sometimes conflicting operating principles/strategies. Such systems suffer IMHO from internal incoherence or inconsistency because the efficacy of their techniques depends on the "harmony" of the principles and their basic body movements. Simply adding technical and/or philosophical elements from aikido (which has a totally different operating system from Krav Maga) only further increases this internal incompatiblity, because the basic body movements/principles are totally different.

Looking at the photos and clips on this site it is what it is. I didn't see anything remotely resembling Daito-ryu aiki (and besides the one sokumen irimi nage, not much like Aikido "aiki" either). I saw no evidence of either DR or Aikido based movements. On the surface, the art seems to have a lot more in common with Hapkido and Kenpo karate or many other hybrid striking/jujutsu arts (see the demo team photos).

As an example I suggest looking at a DR master like Seigo Okamoto of the Roppokai (or any of his accomplished students). You will see the sort of internal coherence I am talking about in their body movements. This coherence is the result of consistency/harmony between the operating principles in DR AJJ and their movements, and is both fundamental and essential to the use/expression of aiki in their techniques.

I'd also suggest a reading or re-reading of the classic article "Martial Aiki Past and Present" by James Williams. I couldn't find the whole thing anymore at either Bugei or Aikido Journal, but here's an excerpt here:

http://www.aikidofaq.com/essays/martial_aiki.html

Nowadays with forums like these, open seminars, Youtube and the like it's not difficult to research a bit about authentic aiki/aikijujutsu and decide for yourself what may or may not have aiki. Whether you really get it or not will likely depend on your actually getting out and really experiencing it - (setting aside the dubious DR credentials of the above mentioned teachers of Mr. Niv) it takes good authentic instruction and training (not just reading & watching) to really learn to see, much more learn to do.

Respectfully,

Brently Keen

[Nathan Scott]

I renamed this thread to enhance future search results.

I wonder how much aiki Ami developed in his 2 year seminar quest to black belt? I'll bet it adding "aiki" to his system has improved sales though.'

Regards,

[Samurai Jack]

The price paid by the Aiki arts for dissemination of information. The only thing I see that might come of it is Krav Maga as a whole may infuse more jujitsu, or even Aikido skills. Whether that adds to the effectiveness of Krav Maga is based on the opponent being able to adapt to the old school Krav Maga. And Krav Maga I don't think really needs more techniques, if the opponet doesn't adpt. What truely makes Krav Maga effective, is the native practitioners' mentality and approach to fighting, to getting the job done. It is sad to see that this type of approach will be rottted by commericalism and pomposity.