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Daniel Latham
4th January 2001, 07:29
I was responding to Mark in the "randori" section and thought this really is appropriate to a new thread.

Mark, I noticed you called judo "a great sport and martial art." I was taught that one of the differences between sport and martial art is that there is a philosophical background to something such as Shorinji Kempo as opposed to basketball, for example.

Does judo have an articulated philosophical underpinning?

What is the difference, if any, between sport and MA? Can a style be both at the same time?

Daniel Latham
South Oregon Branch

Mäki-Kuutti Vesa
15th January 2001, 21:31
To Daniel
About sport, martial art, budo and Shorinji Kempo:

Shorinji Kempo reminds us of the arts of Budo. When you use the word Budo in its original meaning: The way how to put an end to fighting. Not the way of fighting. There is however one great difference between Shorinji Kempo and Budo. Technically it is a method of selfdefence but philosophically Kongo Zen Shohonzan Shorinji is zenbuddhist religion. The technical part is based on the tradition of Gyo. Which means meditation thrue technical training.

Real Budo is never about only sport or competittion or an ability to hurt other people. Good Budo helps to create a person with social consense and power to work against the evil powers in the society and stop and solve conflicts.

It all depends on us the people. Martial Art acts like a knife; it can be used to feed people or to hurt people; it all depends on the user. Also it is not about what is your style or art. It is in how do you use it. Do you want to
follow the original ideas of budo and build peace, happiness and harmony between people?

Daniel Latham
19th January 2001, 17:47
Vesa Mäki-Kuutti ,

From what you say, Vesa, budo can include anything as
long as it is used to stop negative behavior and to benefit society. Shorinji Kempo is obviously budo but what about other activities? Can gymnastics or chess be considered budo in your opinion if they are used to promote cooperation between people and resove conflicts?

Dan Latham
South Oregon Branch

George Hyde
23rd January 2001, 14:13
C'mon Daniel - I think we can safely assume that Vesa's explanation was referring to 'martial activities'.

Anyhow - what it comes down to is interpretation. Vesa uses the interpretation of budo that we're all familiar with in SK. However, even this is simply another interpretation. It is convenient to assume that 'our' interpretation is the 'root'. However whilst this may well be reasonable, (I am BTW, by no means an expert on Chinese) as I understand it, the character 'bu' has multifarious applications besides that which is drummed into us in the SK dojo. In addition to it's martial connotation, it has conjunctive use in terms describing things such as government, matters of state, law, organisation, discipline and so on.

As I've said in the past, there is more to be gained by further illuminating the character, 'do'. It is in this interpretation that one (or at least myself) finds the distinction between sport and MA.

I won't prattle on further than to say that sport lives for the recognition and celebration of victory and the consequent aggrandisement of the participants. The 'do' form places self-realisation/awareness/discovery above all external notions of personal achievement. As such, every victory is entirely internal and unseen by all but the 'victor'.

Later,

Mäki-Kuutti Vesa
25th January 2001, 15:17
To Daniel and George

Of cource the word Budo is connected to some traditional martial arts that are coming from Far-East mostly Japan.
That historical wiew. But I understood that the Question was about Budo as a way of individual people to become better by heart and mind and also body. So philosophically it does not depend on what you do, but how you do and is your purpose to develop yourself as better human beeing and act towards the harmony of people.
In Shorinji Kempo thinking we have two words: Innen and
Engi. Innen means that you should realize that your life
at this moment is a result of your past life. And if you want good life, you can design your life in future. Engi
means that you have an ability to see what are the proper reasons of things you do, you do not want to escape from seeing that. And Only you can really change yourself by this ability to see. This also some essential in the nature of Budo.
"Your blind mind is like a sword that cuts, but cannot cut itself; is it like an eye that can see, but cannot see
itself. Innen means that the sword can cut itself. Engi means that only your eye can see itself."