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Enfield
6th January 2001, 03:59
Okay, for those of you out there with experience instructing, how do you deal with students who just can't seem to grasp a concept or movement? I'm not talking about those who don't get it in a class or two, but those who remain dumbfounded for weeks or months?

Mark Brecht
6th January 2001, 04:13
:up: How did your teacher handle you ???

Hm, too be honest who of us is perfect. We all got our points where we hang, sometimes for a long time. Helping your student through such times isn`t that what true teaching is all about??? Even if he does not master the physical skills or the concepts... He still grows in other ways...

Food for thought...

Joseph Svinth
6th January 2001, 04:19
1. Back off. People learn at different rates and your standing there getting frustrated doesn't help them figure it out for themselves.

2. Back down to simpler tasks. For many people, simply walking is an advanced technique. So practice walking. Feel the toes, the heels, the knees.

3. Emphasize the true fundamentals -- breathe, center, relax.

4. Most importantly, don't push; the idea is to build confidence, not to damage already stressed egos.

sammycerv
6th January 2001, 05:46
I'm one of those people who needs a lot of practice to get someting right. When I first started karate, I was an awkward and uncoordinated kid. Even now, when I learn someting new, I still need some time to get it right. As an instructor, when I see any of my students struggling, I know how they feel. I just let it go and either before or after class I try to review it techniques with them. And if it doesn't help them, go on to another thing and go back to it later. Focus on their strengths rather than their weaknesses. Because the more you try to instill one move the more frustrating it is for both you and the student. Trust me, I know the feeling.

George Russell
6th January 2001, 14:46
Try reading a book called "Martial Arts Teachers on Teaching" by Carol A. Wiley, Frog LTD. ISBN# 1-883319-09-9
The book consists of twenty or so essays by different martial arts teachers and covers , in depth, the different ways people learn. The main part, to me, is one of the chapters that covers the three modes of information intake; Auditory, Visual and Kinesthetic. Though this book is not written by any x-kan folks it's information in timeless.

cybernite
6th January 2001, 18:55
Kent:

Keep in mind that there is chasm between learning physical technique, and grasping mental concepts. Physical technique is simply a matter of repetition and reinforcement (your task here is to disguise it so it doesn't seem monotonous!) The body will eventually become programmed. The mind, on the other is, is a whole other, and far more complex, beast. Understanding anything to any depth, especially intellectual concepts, is really a function of time, effort, and a degree of dump luck. Most people do not usually acquire understanding by step-wise analysis; they are more likely to blindly trip over it a couple of dozen times before it dawns on them. It is an individual experience. You can at best provide hints and advice, but the discovery process is, and should be, their own.

Now that I've ranted on about the theoretical, some practical advice:

* Teach the 3 R's: Repetition, reinforcement, and repetition (yes, I know I repeated myself, but that's the point...!)

* Find ways of saying/instructing the same things different ways.

* Have another instructor, or peer who has "got it", work the student having difficulty. People tend to tune out after the same person says the same thing many times. A different person saying the same thing is as good as new information.

* Return the basis of the problem technique/concept. Chances are if they are having real difficulty at a more advanced level, then they were probably lacking something more basic.

* Trickery is an invaluable teaching tool. Have the person work on something seemingly unrelated, but which enforces the same technique/concept.

* Say less, listen more. People get lost in detail, and ignore it outright when they're having difficulty. They are probably telling you what they don't get, just in a subtle manner (listening is the process of comprehending another person, regardless of whether they speak or not.)

* Above all else, be patient. Remember: it's their journey, not yours.

Well, that's enough stammering on for one day.

Hope this helps!

MarkF
7th January 2001, 09:34
I doubt there are many who walked into the dojo the first time, found instant inner peace, learned ukemi and other exercises after seeing it done once for three seconds, so everyone is handicapped in that way. Even those who catch on right away, still have much to learn beyond the physical modality, how to interact with others, and how to "agree" with the instructor when s/he thinks it can be done better.

That said, many years ago, there was a student at my old dojo, who was there before I was. He was about eight to ten years old, couldn't do anything, even the easiest of ukemi exercises, eg, side to side. I tried to help him as much as I could, even laying hands on, placing his body in the correct postition for the ukemi, as I led the class. But I also could see impatience on some other's faces when I did this, so I attempted to spread myself too thinly, and wound up continually helping this kid, while trying to lead the class. There was no time to talk first before or after class about it with parents, as they left him there, and came back right before class ended and took him home.

Later, I finally asked my sensei what the problem might be, and he, neither, knew what it was.

One evening, his parents were early, and I asked another to watch things for a few minutes and talked with them. It turned out that this child had Downs syndrome, but did not have the usual physical attributes which would let you know something was different here. He always had a smile on his face, and tried his best, so I gave him as much encouragement, by commenting on a single inprovement, such as one Joe mentioned above, how to walk on the mat while doing randori, etc.

I don't have any answers, most have been given, except maybe to be a little more flexible with a class, and give those who need your time as much as you can afford to give. I found this worked out fine. Once, before one class, I received a thank you card from the parents. They were both isei, and it was a little difficult to make out exactly what the card said, but basically, it was simply a thank you for not treating him any differently than anyone else who needed help.

Funny too, was that since it appeared this boy was so trusting, he was more centered and relaxed than any other student. When thrown, his relaxed state, made his partner work for the throw, and he never, ever seemed to be in any trouble as far as injury, even though I would wince once in a while, and run over, only to find a big smile on his face, and would rise to have his turn at a throw, which was just as bad as his ukemi.

Like I said, there are no answers here, but this helped me in the future to not ignore anyone, and to slow down those who seemed to be in a race to be elsewhere. Rewards come in all shapes and non-shapes and sizes, and I usually credit this boy with any success I have today when teaching. I didn't really change the way I taught, but I was much more relaxed and centered than I was before.

As is the case when one is young, I never kept in touch, but think of him often, especially when tensed up with the business of the dojo, tournaments, etc.

Mark

KenpoKev
8th January 2001, 23:19
Ditto to Mark's comments. I have a 16 year old Downs child in my program and she is an inspiration to everyone. She's stuck with it for 2 years now and while she doesn't do the techniques the way I'd expect from a "normal" 16 yr old, she does the best she can every day on the mat. She has made me a much better teacher.

In a word:
ENCOURAGE!

The other excellent posts here all correctly state the methods you can employ to help a student grasp techniques. Just remember to keep encouraging them, catch them doing things right, and make them want to continue.

Respectfully,
Kevin Schaller

Margaret Lo
9th January 2001, 17:05
Since the previous posts are positive and informative, I will offer the bottom line:

Sometimes a student will never get it and that's the way it is.

Do not get sucked into paying these students too much attention, or else you will shortchange your more able students while occupied with the weak one.

The weak ones must either persevere and follow or drop out. Easier to give someone your kidney than your talent!! :)

M

[Edited by Margaret Lo on 01-09-2001 at 02:55 PM]

Mance Thompson
11th January 2001, 17:40
Though I agree with the gist of the earlier comments, I have a similar thought with Margaret. In the history of martial arts, even the most perfect budoka had shortcomings. Though as teachers(of any kind) we strive to do our best to provide the information we feel our students' education requires, knowledge and application are personal endeavors that they must take ultimate responsibility for. Perhaps that is why the "old school" style of teaching produced fewer "masters" than abound today, but they had truly tried and tested their skills and theories for themselves. That said, I am not suggesting that students be abandoned but realize that all will achieve different results and at different times. One last point that was lacking in this discussion is that there is a reason for the multitude of kata in martial arts. People are built differently and have different preferences that go with their individual strengths and weaknesses. Real fighting requires some very fundamental skills but one that is not needed is an encyclopedic knowledge of kata. Naturally, the variety is there for preservation of the historical physical culture and as templates of principles which one can hopefully use in times of need, but it is the responsibility of the practicioner to mold their training to reflect who they are as a martial artist. Or to say is simply and in closing, not all masters have mastered all kata.

Mance Thompson

Mitch Saret
12th January 2001, 05:13
Also please remember that different people learn in different ways. Some people need a detailed explanation. Some need a rough draft with a visual. Some you actually have to move their body parts for them! Some actually need a combination of methods. The key is trying to find the right method for each student. Most teachers I know combine all three methods as a regular habit, and I try too as well, thereby hitting everyone.

Anne Marie
12th January 2001, 05:27
In the first 4 months of aikido, I had a really hard time learning to breakfall and to do the basic rolls. I think I heard every suggetion under the sun. I heard all the metaphors. I just had this darn mental block that I could not get past. I was so frustrating and embarassing for me. I would see newer students and come in and "wham!" breakfalling their first night. I just, at the time, get past the notion of going over. I wasn't afraid of being hurt. I just couldn't do it.

The thing was some of my worst nights was when I would have one or two senior students standing over me trying to help. The suggestions were just overwhelming. I just wished they would shut up and let me practice. I knew in time that I would eventually figure it out and get the "feel for it."

And you know what, I finally did "get it" when I spent a few minutes practicing by myself without someone standing over me.

For me, their well meaning words, were so overwhelming that I could not just clear my mind and let myself roll.

And in that discovery process, I did discover the problem with my mental block. I just was thinking too much. And in the rare moment now (over a year later) when I feel a "mental block moment" come on. I just clear my mind and let the rest follow.

Anne Marie Giri

Rebelecka
12th January 2001, 14:32
First, I must admit that Margaret is correct that some folks never "get it." But consider the case of just one aspect that the person can't "get." I've had some that I've eventually worked thru and "gotten" and I have one or two notable problems currently. I'm working on them. I found it really helps to have someone a)slow down their demonstration (reaaaly slow) and b)evaluate how I'm doing it and point out what part of my body is causing what problem. It takes an instructor who is totally aware of every movement there is in a technique, both how it feels and how it looks.
Sincerely, Rebecca E.

Thomas Wahl
14th January 2001, 10:16
Hi folks!

Yeah, people, I think, what Enfield means. I have a woman in my training-group, which has a really very very very bad coordination. And sometimes it takes very very much of my patient from me.
But besides that she has that bad coordination of her body there are also alot of mental problems. She has problems with herself and with her life.
But she is still coming regularly, several times a week. So the training must give her something. Slowly, very slowly she learns. And when I tell her, that she made alittle progress, she starts smiling and seems to be very happy.
So training is sometimes something very different for each student. Often it is not just about fighting. Maybe, when she is able to function her body better, then her ego will rise abit and this will help her in her life....

How to train someone like her:
Break down movements into simpler things.
Give her two training-partners. So the one, who "has" to practice with her, feels not like her "babysitter". She also has the option then to see, how her two partners are doing the movs. And the second partner can correct her, when she is doing the technique.

Never let her stop and stand their around. She has to practice all the time, so that no negative thinking can come into her mind.

From time to time tell her, that she made a progress, this encourages her to go on.

In the end it is a great possibility for a teacher, to show, how good he really is. You are (as a teacher) not measured by how good you can fight or how big Your bizeps is, but how good your students are and what personality Your students have.

So help Your student! He needs it!

MarkF
14th January 2001, 11:14
Hi, Anne Marie,
Boy, do I identify with you. While growing up, I was trained that I was always "on" (music), physically, my hand still shakes when I do ukemi warm ups.

In fact, I had the same problems with ukemi you did early on, and went home with a strain in my neck and a headache. Once in a while, I would be advised to "tuck your head" more, but otherwise, most of us were allowed our own pace. It can be frantic with someone always in your face, saying the same things over and over, so, in that way, I do agree with Margaret.

But ukemi, I can take a throw on any surface, but when warming up, I still get somewhat of a butterfly in my gut.

Training is training, but performing is much harder.

Mark

Just some guy
14th January 2001, 11:39
Okay, for those of you out there with experience instructing, how do you deal with students who just can't seem to grasp a concept or movement? I'm
not talking about those who don't get it in a class or two, but those who remain dumbfounded for weeks or months?

As a teacher by trade I can tell you that this will happen a lot. Simply put, if the student got it right away, you wouldn't be needed in the first place. In the end I've noticed that the ONLY way to get people to correct their mistakes is, in the most polite form possible, keep saying "No that's not right". Teaching English, I've had students who are in some of my upper level classes who still have problems with making sentences and when to use which tense.
It's just hard sometimes. I thiink that in a while you'll find that everyone has these problems, including yourself. The only thing you can do is just keep at it. :smash:

Thomas Wahl
22nd January 2001, 10:31
Hi "Just some guy"!

who said, that being a teacher is a easy job?.....

kenshorin
3rd February 2001, 21:18
What I have in mind has already been stated, but in a roundabout way.

Everyone has their shortcomings, yes; however, everyone also has something they are particularly good at (point in case, the child with Downs who was a particularly good uke because he/she stayed relaxed) Never fail to give praise/encouragement to them on that which they are good at. The stuff they aren't so good at, hopefully will come with time. But if you constantly dwell on their failings, they will feel like a failure. If you dwell on their positives, they will feel positive.