SHINTO MUSO RYU, AIKIDO AND SOLO JO KATA

[Yamantaka]

To anyone kind enough to illuminate this poor soul :

I have doubts concerning these points
a) Besides Iai, are there any solo katas in Koryu?
b) did Ueshiba Morihei Kaiso, of Aikido, ever studied Shinto Muso Ryu Jo ? and
c) Does Shinto Muso Ryu Jo have any solo jo kata ?
Thanks for any help
Best regards
Yamantaka

[Tony Peters]

Originally posted by YAMANTAKA
To anyone kind enough to illuminate this poor soul :

I have doubts concerning these points
a) Besides Iai, are there any solo katas in Koryu?
b) did Ueshiba Morihei Kaiso, of Aikido, ever studied Shinto Muso Ryu Jo ? and
c) Does Shinto Muso Ryu Jo have any solo jo kata ?
Thanks for any help
Best regards
Yamantaka


OK I'll take a stab at these ???S.

a) Not really as far as I have seen. Though, all of the Koryu kata's that I have seen are primarailly two person katas, they can be done solo.

b) I have never heard of O'sensei ever actually studying/practicing SMR Jodo. Though I have heard that he did know Shimizu sensei (the last SMR Soke) so he was aware of Jodo.

c) I'm still working on the Omori (SP?) set so I'll speak on what I know. Jodo has kihon which can be compared to Aiki Jo suburi's (if you study Iwama) though these can also be done with a partner unlike Iwama suburi's. All of the kata that I have seen (which is a lot more than I have done) are two person kata. all of the Kata that I have learn I practice solo as I have not been taught the sword side yet. though this doesn't help my timing much it does drive the movements past the thinking stage.

Okinawain arts have a lot of one person katas; this is because they had to practice in secret alot (or so I have been told).

[Yamantaka]

Thank you very much, Tony!
And now : doesn't anybody else wishes to help me? Diane?
I need your help
Yamantaka

[Eric Montes]

Yamantaka,

I don't have complete knowledge of Koryu, but I can state what I have had experience with.


a) Besides Iai, are there any solo katas in Koryu?
--To my knowledge, no. While all kata can be practiced solo, the object is to teach strategy while engaged with an opponent. The uketachi is assuming a teaching role to allow the shitachi to perform the kata at an appropriate level. As the shitachi improves, he/she is then pushed to a higher level. The uketachi is a vital part of any koryu practice.

b) did Ueshiba Morihei Kaiso, of Aikido, ever studied Shinto Muso Ryu Jo ?
--Tony is quite correct in stating that Ueshiba Morihei probably did know Shimizu Takaji. But no one that I know (including students of Ueshiba Sensei) never make any mention of him studying SMR.


c) Does Shinto Muso Ryu Jo have any solo jo kata ?
--SMR does not have any solo jo kata. Only the kihon (basic strikes) are practiced solo. ALL the kata are stick vs. sword.


Eric

[Ellis Amdur]

Solo kata are unusual, but not unknown. first, if one is really inclusive regarding koryu kata, we have to count projectile weapons such as guns (tanegashima, shuriken, bow-and-arrow, etc.). Then there are koryu arts such as bajutsu and suijutsu (horse riding and swimming).
That aside, Chikabujima Ryu has solo bo forms, I've seen a scroll called Kurama Den with a solo naginata form dating back many hundreds of years.
And I've not been looking - therefore, i'm willing to infer that there were probably a number of ryu that might have had some solo kata. However, they would be, even so, quite a small proportion, and were probably only used as a 'basics" practice. The very raison d'etre of bugei was two person practice.

Best

Ellis Amdur

[Yamantaka]

Amdur Sama,

Thank you very much for your kind and elucidative answer. I really have to find a way to get your book...
Best regards
Yamantaka

[Diane Skoss]

Hi Ubaldo,

Sorry not to have answered sooner. We were out of town for the last five days.

I can't add much to what Eric and Ellis have said, other than to emphasize that there is definitely no connection between aiki jo and Shinto Muso-ryu, and that SMR jo has no solo forms in the general curriculum.

Also, I have seen one (or more?) spear schools (and I can't recall for certain off the top of my head which ones--Meik would know) demonstrate solo forms, so they definitely do exist within the curricula of some koryu, even today.

Hope this helps!

[Yamantaka]

Originally posted by Diane Skoss
Hi Ubaldo,

Sorry not to have answered sooner. We were out of town for the last five days.

I can't add much to what Eric and Ellis have said, other than to emphasize that there is definitely no connection between aiki jo and Shinto Muso-ryu, and that SMR jo has no solo forms in the general curriculum.

Also, I have seen one (or more?) spear schools (and I can't recall for certain off the top of my head which ones--Meik would know) demonstrate solo forms, so they definitely do exist within the curricula of some koryu, even today.

Hope this helps!


YAMANTAKA : My most Noble Lady, you do not have to say sorry! I know you're generous and kind. Be sure, you helped me alot, as every one else has. Really, this is the list of lists!
Give my best regards to Meik
Ubaldo.