Buddhist monks in the Japanese Imperial Army

[Moenstah]

Ok, this might seem a bit morbid, but while watching 'Men behind the Sun 4 - the Nanking Massacre' (not one of the most pleasant movies I've seen) I saw a Japanese monk that was cutting off the lower arms of fallen Chinese soldiers. The subtitle stated that he was responsible in some way of the disposal of dead bodies.Can anyone explain to me why a buddhist would undertake such a responsibility?

PS: I do not want to stir up a debate about Japanese atrocities/war crimes or anything like that whatsoever.

Thanks

[Nii]

I saw a Japanese monk that was cutting off the lower arms of fallen Chinese soldiers.

Huh? Lower arms?

Interesting observation anyway. I look forward to someone with more knowledge than I to step in =P

[Moenstah]

Sorry, silly mistake. I mean to say: the lower half of the arm (radius et ulna bones).

[Tom Karazozis]

I saw a Japanese monk that was cutting off the lower arms of fallen Chinese soldiers. The subtitle stated that he was responsible in some way of the disposal of dead bodies.Can anyone explain to me why a buddhist would undertake such a responsibility?

Well, I suggest that you start exploring the history of Buddhism in Japan if you want to understand the answer to your question. But to makes things short and easy, I recommend that you read 'Zen at war' by Brian Victoria and for a general view of the whole history of religion in Japan I suggest you get a copy of 'A history of Japanese religion'. You can also check this link out for a very brief explanantion(or answer) to your question. http://www.mandala.hr/5/baran.html

Here are the links to the two books that I mentioned.

Zen at war- http://www.amazon.com/Zen-War-Brian-Daizen-Victoria/dp/0742539261

A history of Japanese religion- http://www.amazon.com/History-Japanese-Religion-Kazuo-Kasahara/dp/4333019176

Even today, Japanese Buddhism is very much diluted from what Buddhism is actually supposed to be. Buddhism in Japan is all pretty on the outside e.g. the beauty of temples and the way they are taken care of, or preserved , the ceremonies, etc... Don't get me wrong though. There are still some real followers that keep the tradition real, study and train hard in buddhism but, they are certainly not the all-mesmerizing old kuso-bozu that wear 30 000$ kesa, pick their nose and charge ridiculous amounts of money for funerals.

[Moenstah]

Dear Tom,

Thank you for your reply! This is, and will be, very interesting reading. Parts of it remind me of the discussion inside the Roman Catholic Church about the religious legitimacy of crusades.

[Brian Owens]

Sorry, silly mistake. I mean to say: the lower half of the arm (radius et ulna bones).
Not a mistake at all.

Although "upper arm and forearm" is a more common usage in English, "upper arm and lower arm" is also perfectly accepatable.

The latter also is consistant, since most people use "upper leg and lower leg" rather than "upper leg and foreleg" when refering to human anatomy.

[Moenstah]

Not a mistake at all.

Although "upper arm and forearm" is a more common usage in English, "upper arm and lower arm" is also perfectly accepatable.

The latter also is consistant, since most people use "upper leg and lower leg" rather than "upper leg and foreleg" when refering to human anatomy.

I did some wiki-work (yes, I'm lazy): it seems that "forearm" is actually some translated 'gallicism', since in Germanic languages as German and Dutch and Norwegian, it is a "lower/under" arm. :look:

Thanks for the clarification Brian

[henjoyuko]

Hey Guys,

Just FWIW, most of the information available talks largely about Zen and war. In the West many people equate Zen with Japanese Buddhism, but as I am sure you are aware there are many "brands" of Buddhism equally, and more, popularly followed in Japan. Most of the major players (organizations) were completely "on board" with the war effort which isn't too surprising if one considers that if they weren't "on board" they would have been censured like the Omoto Kyo was. Since an organization's ususal focus is the preservation/propagation of the organization rather than on individual development/exploration it shouldn't be surprising that organizations usually act along those same lines . . . maybe disappointing, but not surprising.

As far as the Buddhists (These guys may have been newly minted just for the job. Shave their heads, Put on the costume. Presto-Change-O, Instant Buddhist Priest Corp.) out "tending" to the dead is concerned, as it has been mentioned already, in Japan funerals are a primary role for Buddhist priests. I have no idea what they were doing, and as I said they may have only been associated with Buddhism by appearance only. However, could they have been preparing the bodies for cremation? Usually a body is cremated and then some bones are picked out from the ashes.

On the other hand, considering the general treatment given to those "liberated" by the Japanese Imperial Army I'd be a bit surprised if they bothered with the niceties normally given a Japanese fallen soldier.

[Moenstah]

Dear Allen,

It wasn't some preparation as far as I could see in the movie. Just collecting forearms. Clothed like this (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/74/Japanese_buddhist_monk_by_Arashiyama_cut.jpg/435px-Japanese_buddhist_monk_by_Arashiyama_cut.jpg)

[henjoyuko]

Strange!!!!!!!!!

[Walker]

Obviously Ninja in disguise!!! :cool:

[henjoyuko]

Oh no not you!

At least you didn't make a joke about how they were a bunch of monks that mistakenly thought that they were told to collect "arms" instead of "alms." Or, some folks will do anything for a free "hand-out."

Moderator! MODERATOR! Are you going to let Walker get away with this????

[Walker]

...and nothing about samsara being "hand to mouth" existence.

Maybe they were collecting them to give to Daruma who has a demonstrated weakness for severed arms. :laugh:

[henjoyuko]

I'm surprised that others aren't up in arms about the tasteless sense of humor demonstrated here. Clearly this situation is getting out of hand.

[Nii]

Maybe they are making sure their opponent was 'armless.

[henjoyuko]

John,

While I'm certain you only have the best of intentions, I find your naivete with regards to Mr. Walker's intentions disarming!
;)

[Joseph Svinth]

Y'all should be punished for this.

[Nii]

EDIT: Woops, repeated a pun. I'm out of puns =(

[Brian Owens]

Y'all should be punished for this.
Oh I don't know. I'd give an arm and a leg to see how far they can go before we're all up in arms over their antics.

[Moenstah]

[QUOTE=Tom Karazozis;459141]Well, I suggest that you start exploring the history of Buddhism in Japan if you want to understand the answer to your question. But to makes things short and easy, I recommend that you read 'Zen at war' by Brian Victoria and for a general view of the whole history of religion in Japan I suggest you get a copy of 'A history of Japanese religion'. (...)

Thanks Tom!

A few days ago, I stumbled upon 'Zen at War' in a second hand bookstore (of all places, while even my own university library didn't have it!). Bought it, reading it now. Quite interesting stuff, especially since the author tackles the stance of some Mahayana buddhists on 'just war' and the way regimes in Eastern Asia succesfully subdued buddhism and even used it as a form of control for the government, not only in Japan, but elsewhere too. Also, the policy of certain Zen sects e.g. regarding the former 'paria's', after the war was something new to me.

Now I understand the monk going arm chopping thing :idea:

[Tom Karazozis]

[QUOTE=Tom Karazozis;459141]Well, I suggest that you start exploring the history of Buddhism in Japan if you want to understand the answer to your question. But to makes things short and easy, I recommend that you read 'Zen at war' by Brian Victoria and for a general view of the whole history of religion in Japan I suggest you get a copy of 'A history of Japanese religion'. (...)

Thanks Tom!

A few days ago, I stumbled upon 'Zen at War' in a second hand bookstore (of all places, while even my own university library didn't have it!). Bought it, reading it now. Quite interesting stuff, especially since the author tackles the stance of some Mahayana buddhists on 'just war' and the way regimes in Eastern Asia succesfully subdued buddhism and even used it as a form of control for the government, not only in Japan, but elsewhere too. Also, the policy of certain Zen sects e.g. regarding the former 'paria's', after the war was something new to me.

Now I understand the monk going arm chopping thing :idea:

Hey, glad I can help! Don't mention it.