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Kenshi
12th February 2008, 16:24
WOW! A Black Belt via the internet from a Matsushita and Roy Goldberg Guy! I want one! Coming soon Daito Ryu & Meishin-Muso Ryu Iaido, Meishin-Muso Ryu Taijutsu and Kendo. I wonder if Goldberg or Matsushita know about this.

http://www.streamingmartialarts.com/comingarts.php

http://www.streamingmartialarts.com/bio/lafrance.php (http://www.streamingmartialarts.com/bio/lafrance.php)

http://www.streamingmartialarts.com/blackbelt.php (http://www.streamingmartialarts.com/blackbelt.php)

Ken

Bob Blackburn
12th February 2008, 17:35
No rank is given from the site. Both Matsushita Sensei and Goldberg Sensei are aware. It is a way to watch classes live and archived from different arts. You can watch Matsushita Sensei's seminars from the archive list.

Kenshi
12th February 2008, 19:37
No rank is given from the site. Both Matsushita Sensei and Goldberg Sensei are aware. It is a way to watch classes live and archived from different arts. You can watch Matsushita Sensei's seminars from the archive list.

Then please explain this;


"Forget the BS!
Get on the fast track to earning your Black Belt
“I never thought I’d have the time to train. Getting a black belt… well, that seemed like an impossibility. But then I found Streaming Martial Arts. Their Black Belt training gave me the opportunity to take intensive martial arts classes and earn my Black Belt a lot sooner than I ever thought possible. Thanks!!”
-- J. Webb, Cherry Hill NJ --

Don’t have the time for the BS of many martial arts classes? Then, our Black Belt training is for you.

With this membership you’ll have access to one-on-one training with the alpha dogs of the industry. In these intensive training sessions you’ll train… train… train, learning only effective maneuvers and proven techniques.

NO fluff moves!

NO sport tactics!

NO needless exercises!

Our Black Belt training is about teaching you what you need to know FAST. Oh yeah… and it’s about getting that Black Belt around your waist.



What are the BENEFITS to Black Belt Training?

You get private training sessions with master martial artists.
You’ll learn only hard core, effective techniques.
Intensive training sessions mean you learn more… faster.
And MORE!
Plus, you’ll enjoy these extra benefits…

Chance to chat with the Grandmasters in the Streaming Martial Arts Forum!
Access to previously unpublished martial arts material written by the Grandmasters themselves.
Opportunity to win an iPod or a one-on-one training session with the martial artist of your choice.
† † † Limited Time Offer!

Join today and pay the low Introductory Price of just $67.00 per month.

This price won’t last forever. Don’t wait, join today."

Kendoguy9
12th February 2008, 20:36
I'm a little blind where is the page that says Roy Goldberg is part of this?

I'd like to get a black belt in Daito-ryu... Oh wait I already have one. Oh well.

If someone really wants a black belt I'm sure it is cheaper to just go to AWMA and buy one for $20.

DDATFUS
12th February 2008, 20:46
You have a black belt, Chris? In that case, you really ought to start wearing it to the seminars ;)

Ron Tisdale
12th February 2008, 20:57
Ouch! :D

Dude (Chris), it was great seeing you again!

All the Best,
Ron

bwhite33
12th February 2008, 21:04
Under Mr LaFrance's bio Mr Goldberg is mentioned.

[QUOTE=Kendoguy9;459174]I'm a little blind where is the page that says Roy Goldberg is part of this?

Kenshi
12th February 2008, 21:07
I'm a little blind where is the page that says Roy Goldberg is part of this?

I'd like to get a black belt in Daito-ryu... Oh wait I already have one. Oh well.

If someone really wants a black belt I'm sure it is cheaper to just go to AWMA and buy one for $20.

It does not say Goldberg is teaching. And I doubt that neither he nor Matsushita know they are being referenced so blatantly to sell these guys snake oil. It says,

"Sensei Ben La France – owner and proprietor of The Martial Arts Studio (established in 1998) – has been a dedicated student of the martial arts for almost his entire life. His never-ending pursuit of knowledge has led him to high-ranking positions in more than six (6) Japanese, Chinese and Korean styles. Sensei La France continues to study and currently trains under Sensei Roy Goldberg (Daito Ryu) and Master Keith Mazza (heir to the Traditional Wing Chun Kung Fu system)." and then "Instructors: Matsushita Sensei," followed by a bio...

from here;

http://www.streamingmartialarts.com/bio/lafrance.php

and then from this page http://www.streamingmartialarts.com/comingarts.php

Martial Arts Style to Come

Baguazhang
Capoeira
Chin Na
Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu
Escrima/Kali/Arnis
Hapkido
Hsing-I
Iaido/Iaijutsu
Jeet Kune Do
Jujustu
Kendo
Krav Maga
Kung Fu
Nihon Kobudo
Ninjutsu
Okinawan Kobudo
Sambo
San Shou/Sanda
Savate
Shaolin Kung Fu
Shorinji Kempo
Shurikenjutsu
Silat
Systema
Tai Chi
Tang Soo Do
Wushu
Yiquan/Taikiken

I would like to know exactly what high ranking martial arts certification and positions LaFrance has in 6 different Japanese and Chinese martial arts? Is it high positions in Daito Ryu (Which organization?)? Ed Parker Kenpo? Meishin-Muso Ryu Iaido? Wing Chun? No credentials are listed...just references to the instructors he says he trains with. Thats what I call a real...uhmmm, how did they put it? Oh yeah "ALPHA DOG" of the martial arts industry.

Ron Tisdale
12th February 2008, 21:15
hmm...again, where does it say HE IS INVOLVED?

He's probably listed in a lot of people's bio...most of whom saw him for 2 hours at a seminar and ran up to get a picture.

Alpo dog? :D Heh, I call that a red herring! ;)

Best,
Ron

Kenshi
12th February 2008, 21:36
hmm...again, where does it say HE IS INVOLVED?

He's probably listed in a lot of people's bio...most of whom saw him for 2 hours at a seminar and ran up to get a picture.

Alpo dog? :D Heh, I call that a red herring! ;)

Best,
Ron

Hi Ron,

Nowhere does it say Goldberg is involved or Matsushita. But the site uses credible martial arts teachers names to reinforce the credibility of these martial arts cyber-salesmen who are offering online Black Belts in every art under the sun. Maybe Bob Blackburn could clarify if Goldberg or Matsushita are really teachers of Lafrance and whether or not they acknowledge what his website offers. Or whether Lafrance just got a photo op with these guys and referenced them as you said Ron. Good question...

Kenshi
12th February 2008, 23:55
Check this out...

http://www.streamingmartialarts.com/blackbelt.php

PERFECT!

When he heard about this thread, I was told the guy registered here on e-budo today as J La France and kickboxingbabe. Funny how he didn't actually respond to the thread himself. Then he starts changing the crap out of his website. It's a good thing we've learned to make copies of these website things before they get torn down:laugh:...very naughty...I guess maybe his teachers didn't know what he was up to eh? Let's see if he changes the rest of the pages too...anybody want to bet?

Kenshi
13th February 2008, 00:25
Bingo! He tore down the Instructor membership page where he was selling the program for $97.00 per month as well. BUT..they can still be found in the cache on google if you still want to see them. I made copies just to see what happens next.

P Goldsbury
13th February 2008, 00:31
WOW! A Black Belt via the internet from a Matsushita and Roy Goldberg Guy! I want one! Coming soon Daito Ryu & Meishin-Muso Ryu Iaido, Meishin-Muso Ryu Taijutsu and Kendo. I wonder if Goldberg or Matsushita know about this.

http://www.streamingmartialarts.com/comingarts.php

http://www.streamingmartialarts.com/bio/lafrance.php (http://www.streamingmartialarts.com/bio/lafrance.php)

http://www.streamingmartialarts.com/blackbelt.php (http://www.streamingmartialarts.com/blackbelt.php)

Ken

Mr Shire,

Please check the rules for posting in E-Budo, especially Rule 4 (against multiple-posting of the same thread). You can leave the thread either here or in Baffling Budo, but not in both forums.

Which would you prefer?

Kenshi
13th February 2008, 00:34
Mr Shire,

Please check the rules for posting in E-Budo, especially Rule 4 (against multiple-posting of the same thread). You can leave the thread either here or in Baffling Budo, but not in both forums.

Which would you prefer?

Mr. Goldsbury,

I apologise for the double thread. Please delete the baffling budo post. I wil be sure not to double post in the future. Thank you for your guidance regarding such matters.

P Goldsbury
13th February 2008, 00:40
Fine,

I have done so. Actually, given the content, there is a case for putting the thread in Bad Budo, but I will leave that to the moderator here.

Best wishes,

PAG

Bob Blackburn
13th February 2008, 00:45
You can see Ben LaFrance listed under Keith Mazza at Sifu's site. http://www.traditionalwingchun.com/index.php Sifu Mazza also offers online classses through the site. The link is on his home page.

So does Matsushita Sensei. You can watch him give a seminar at the dojo under Meishin Muso Ryu.

There are enough people here that confirm student status with Goldberg Sensei.

Raj
13th February 2008, 03:37
Mr. La France has been training with Sifu Keith Mazza, Sensei Matsushita and Sensei Goldberg. And not just in two-hour seminars as has been implied. If
you want, PM me and I can give you the details of his training and rank these arts. I also assure you that Mr. La France is not trying to hide anything from his teachers, as was implied elsewhere.

The goal of streaming martial arts is to give people a study tool akin to, but more dynamic than, video tapes. Surely the teachers who have released video tapes see value in having their teachings on visual media.

There are good use cases for this site.
- If a student were travelling and unable to attend class, he can watch class from a remote location.
- You can watch yourself in class later and go 'So that's what I am doing!'.
- If you are curious about an art, and if the teacher happens to be online, you can watch it.

I don't think that everyone who buys a martial arts video, or watches documentaries on TV or video clips on youtube assumes that they have 'learned' that martial art. I personally see these as a tool, rather than the sole provider of one's martial arts training.

Sensei Goldberg's classes are definitely not present on the site. Sifu Keith Mazza's classes are online as are Sensei Matsushita's. If anyone is curious, feel free to watch.

I understand the confusion that has been caused. The site is in what can be best described as pre-beta. Some streams are live, others are not. The data on the website, unfortunately, was not at all ready for prime time. It was not meant to be for widespread consumption. It is unfortunate that the site got publicity before the data was streamlined and proof read and so on.

So, please be patient while it is revamped. If you have more questions, you can PM me or call Mr. La France at the number on the site.

thanks
Raj Subrahmanian

Nathan Scott
13th February 2008, 04:22
I've retitled the thread to enhance future searches. I'll leave the thread here for the time being in the event La France is - somehow - a legitimate member of Daito-ryu.

Anyone that buys rank over the internet gets what they deserve. I see it as a great chance for all these guys who can't get off the internet and train as students in these arts to become "masters" just by watching it (Mitori Masters tm). Budo is all about wasting twice the time that it would take to just walk in a dojo and train to look for shortcuts instead.

I like that La France's ranks and experience are legitimate, but can only be revealed in private...

Raj
13th February 2008, 15:48
Mr. Scott,
Reading e-budo over the years, I notice that almost no one reveal their rank online. If you were to speak to Sensei Goldberg, he will vouch for Mr. La France's training, I assure you. That should be easy enough for you to check.

It is unfortunate that this has gotten publicity for all the wrong reasons. That happened because the website was not complete and 'ready to go'. The web-developers are not martial artists either. So, what got the attention was an incomplete, and as has been pointed out many times here, a flawed website. That, I will not contest, and neither will Mr. La France.

The basic concept was not to enable people to get mastery online(which seems to have gotten all the attention). The basic concept here is the same as watching martial arts dvds. You can not gain mastery through online material, any more than you can through dvds. But, practically everyone in the martial arts seems to have their own little collection of videos. Maybe it is out of curiosity, historical interest or maybe as an aid to their learning process.

This website seeks to play a similar role. As an adjunct to one's training or a satisfaction of one's curiousity. Not as a sole source of one's martial arts training. That, I think, has value. I rather enjoyed watching the katori shinto ryu demos on youtube. I don't think that makes me in any way trained in that art. But, it was cool to watch. Similarly, I find it cool to watch the gracie jujutsu folks on this site, even though I don't train that art. I am not going to go out and claim mastery in gracie jujutsu after having watched the classes, any more than I will claim mastery in Katori Shinto Ryu after watching the youtube videos.

thanks
Raj Subrahmanian
PS. Mr. La France seems to be having trouble getting on e-budo since yesterday. I was having trouble resetting my password. I seldom post and therefore had forgotten my password. Hence the delay in response.

b la france
13th February 2008, 18:52
First… Thank you for keeping thread open so that I may respond to this thread. I would have liked to respond sooner, but for some reason just couldn’t get my account activated.

Truth be told, I’m a bit surprised at the uproar caused by a little bit of copy that was misunderstood. But as a few petty people have decided to blow things out of proportion, I’d be happy to respond.

Do my teachers know about Streaming Martial Arts? Of course… I would not undertake such a thing without telling them.

As for my legitimacy as a martial artist… I am no “photo hound.” I don’t post any photos of me and my teachers on my web site are on any web site. They sit very proudly on my mantel… by my desk... and on the wall of my office.

My credentials are legitimate. If you question them, log on to Streaming Martial Arts to see Matsushita Sensei training at my dojo.

As for Sensei Goldberg… you will never see him or Daito Ryu (Kodo Kai) on SMA. C’mon, any knowledgable martial artist knows that this will never happen. And Sensei Goldberg has nothing to do with Streaming Martial Arts. He was simply a mention in my bio because I am honored to know and train with him.

And as for Daito Ryu being on the side nav… my Webmaster listed every martial art he could find.

And people with intelligence know that there are many branches to Daito Ryu… some with video tapes on the market. I guess that’s everyone loss. Thanks for your support and understanding in trying to bring people like you a chance to watch different martial arts.

All this aside, here is the big question…

Why is everyone focusing on my martial arts background instead of what Streaming Martial Arts is trying to do?

It’s trying to open the world of martial arts to everybody. My partners and I just trying to do a good thing for everyone by giving them a chance to view different martial arts class LIVE whenever they wanted. And, you can’t tell me that watching the top martial artists train wouldn’t help you to grow as a martial artist yourself.

Now, the Black Belt page… I actually have to thank you for bringing that to my attention. That page went up during the first roll out of SMA. All links were supposedly taken off months ago as I felt people would misconstrue the message that the copywriter wrote.

The Black Belt links were just to Black Belt classes. No black belts would be given out. C’mon… you and I both know that there is no way that could ever happen.

So when you mentioned that you had found a link to the page I removed it right away. For that I do thank you.

And directly to Nathan Scott… how can you pretend that you don’t know who I am? We trained together in Japan, even eating breakfast together. And, now you question whether or not I’m a student?

Look… I’m an unassuming martial artist who has always kept out of the limelight. I love what I do… who I train with… and I want to continue doing what I do. For that reason this is probably the first and last post I will write on eBudo. The limelight can cause problems for my training and that is first and foremost most important to me. I won’t do anything to put that in jeopardy.

Ben La France
P.S. Thank you for being patient. For some reason I had a real hard time getting an account.

If you have any questions please feel free to call me directly through the Streaming Martial Arts phone number.

And to Ken Shire… please give me a call. I’ve been trying to reach you, but it seems that you are not accepting any emails/contacts. Funny…

Nathan Scott
13th February 2008, 19:10
Mr. La France,

The reason this became an issue for discussion is because the website appeared to advertise instruction in certain arts, based on instruction from certain teachers, which could result in obtaining a black belt over the web. If you say that was not your intention, then fine. But that is how it looked.

As for meeting you, that must be a mistake on my part. I don't remember the names of everyone I've met during trips to Japan, but if you say we talked I believe you.

Regards,