Do you ever train wih "normal clothes", shoes, etc?

[Tripitaka of AA]

If you have, what did you notice? Does it make any difference to any specific techniques? Did it change the way you were thinking about the training? Is it a useful exercise for "once in a while", or an unecessary drift from standard Shorinji Kempo training?

[PeterL]

If you have, what did you notice? Does it make any difference to any specific techniques? Did it change the way you were thinking about the training? Is it a useful exercise for "once in a while", or an unecessary drift from standard Shorinji Kempo training?

David

An interesting question. I have never "trained" (as in done a SK "workout or training session") in street clothes. Like most of you I suspect, I have practiced some Sk while wearing street clothes (my wife and son also do SK.) It is not unusual for my wife and I do do some light "juho" after one of us comes home from practice (while the other baby-sat). With my son, it is quite common for him to launch full scale attacks (think of Keto from the Pink panther - LOL) .

I think that it is fair to compare it so swimming with your clothes on. Many people have their kids take swimming lessons so that if the fall in the water they won't drown, as many people take SK for self defense. Well if you fall in the water, you will probably have clothes on, and not those ooh so sexy speedos favoured by European men (just a joke :D). If you are in a self defense situation you will probably be in street clothes (or perhaps in a speedo running from an enraged husband).

I think that being in those situations gives you an idea of what is more realistic in an "emergency situation", but beyond that I think unless you are going to train and swim regularly in clothing, I do not see much "purpose" beyond getting a feel for the "limitations imposed by clothing.

I think also, then you move beyond swimming lessons (most people swim for fun eventually) and SK (most people, I suspect are not into SK in the long run for self defense- I think SK encompasses much more than that) into drown proofing/rescue type skills, and "street skills, which aree a whole new puppy.

In street clothes, I think the biggest difference is footwear, and lost of mobilty due to clothing.

[Nina]

I think that it can be a good lesson, as well as if you train under other more realistic circumstances.
In the summer holidays we sometimes meet in the park, in order to have some training when the dojo is closed, but there you normally wear sporty clothes, but we also trained with shoes. I don`t have really fun to do so, because it feels like incomplete training for me...

[Nadine]

I remember when I started to train in Shorinji Kempo, without dogi, it was a bad feeling... If I would forget my dogi, I am not sure whether I would not better watch training instead of actively taking part. When training for instance outside without dogi, there is another training attitude, at least in my eyes, not so much seriousness...

[sheb]

For me it is much more fun to train with dogi, at least in dojo. I feel more concentrated and motivated. ... What about people who don't want to wear a dogi? Is it ok or should they be asked to wear one.

[Nina]

For me it is much more fun to train with dogi, at least in dojo. I feel more concentrated and motivated. ... What about people who don't want to wear a dogi? Is it ok or should they be asked to wear one.

If you want to train SK you need a dogi, if you don`t want to wear it,stay at home! I wonder how one can train without it and have fun, I just feel naked without that.

[jailess]

No. Feels weird.

[sean dixie]

Lets 'fess up here before someone does it for me....

I, err, once forgot my dogi bottoms, so had on my jeans to take the class! :eek:

Very weird indeed.

[luar]

No. Feels weird.

It certainly does and the problem I have is that I rely on my Ozaki dogi to make that snap sound to know if I am doing it correctly. If I practice with a t-shirt, it throws me off at first.

[tracey fuller]

I have to say on the couple of occasions when I've forgotten my gi, I swear training has hurt more.
That heavy duty canvas does give a certain amount of protection against hard blocks etc.
Regards Tracey

[Ewok]

I have to say on the couple of occasions when I've forgotten my gi, I swear training has hurt more.
That heavy duty canvas does give a certain amount of protection against hard blocks etc


It certainly does and the problem I have is that I rely on my Ozaki dogi to make that snap sound to know if I am doing it correctly. If I practice with a t-shirt, it throws me off at first.


No. Feels weird.

Using the swimming with your clothes on analogy, it certainly looks like training without your dogi could be worth it ;)

(Tracey! You'll bring the ghost of Kimpatsu with that kind of talk!)

[Kari MakiKuutti]

It is dogi, not gi :D:D:D

[John Ryan]

We recently trained in Hyde Park (London), after our usual venue was cancelled at zero notice. This was in February, so although the weather was unseasonably warm, it was still definitely a shoes-on sort of day. Training in garb resembling ordinary clothes is, as a one-off exercise at least, very interesting. For one thing, kicking becomes even less practical as a self-defence measure. And there's a world of difference training on lumpy ground compared with a smooth wooden floor. The danger of only training in pristine environments and with dogi rather than own clothes is you get used to a particular set of boundaries, and then in the street you might end up taking these things for granted too much. Smooth footwork in the dojo becomes stumbling on grass. Sharp kicks become laboured under the weight of clod-hopping boots...

Having said all this, I'm not sure I'd set out to hold an "own clothes" session intentionally...

[Michael_Smith]

Gassho

How many kenshi have bought jeans or similar then raised your knee high to check if you can kick in them? :D

A few eons ago, at our dojo there use to be an informal drop-in practice on Saturday mornings, where you could get some extra work in. I often trained in shorts and a T-shirt or Gi bottoms and T-shirt etc. At first it was weird but you got use to it and you become very aware of what you limbs were doing, I think in made me aware of my body coordination and helped improve my form.

Kesshu

[luar]

How many kenshi have bought jeans or similar then raised your knee high to check if you can kick in them? :D


Somehow I am not too worried about my kicks if my opponent wore these kind of jeans :)

10374

[luar]

I have to say on the couple of occasions when I've forgotten my gi, I swear training has hurt more.
That heavy duty canvas does give a certain amount of protection against hard blocks etc.
Regards Tracey

Dogi's don't fight back :p

[Tripitaka of AA]

How can you hope to "switch on" if you need to be wearing the dogi to function correctly? It is all beginning to sound like the old comics, where SuperHeroes only have their powers when they've got their tights on!

I don't advocate changing the class format, but surely every Kenshi should take the time to consider how it feels to try the same moves in regular clothes.

[JL.]

Gassho!


[…] surely every Kenshi should take the time to consider how it feels to try the same moves in regular clothes.Surely everyone does some Shorinjikempo moves outside of class from time to time, just because their being bored? That should be enough for that purpose, IMHO.
From the training sessions in street clothes I've taken, I'd say that wearing shoes makes by far the biggest difference. Especially when the kick connects (talk about pulling back the toes).
Overall I'd say it's not that big a difference and I don't think anybody should worry if they haven't done it, yet, though it sure can't hurt to try.

Kesshu,
______ Jan.

[David Dunn]

Thinking laterally, perhaps it would be a good idea to always wear clothes that didn't restrict your ability to self-defence yourself?

Just a thought :)

[tony leith]

Sharp kicks become laboured under the weight of clod-hopping boots...


Which is why I gave up on wearing heavy duty ex army boots. Add heft, but slow down kicks.


Thinking laterally, perhaps it would be a good idea to always wear clothes that didn't restrict your ability to self-defence yourself?


I usually check when buying footwear that I can kick in them. Yes, this does get me some very funny looks (PS I mean rehearse kicking actions , not actually wreaking havoc in the shop).

Dave's point is relevant however. the asnwer to restrictive clothing compromising your ability to punch and kick is not to wear restrictive clothing..

Tony Leith

[lefuet]

Dave's point is relevant however. the asnwer to restrictive clothing compromising your ability to punch and kick is not to wear restrictive clothing..

Tony Leith

or to train in restrictive clothing with weights attached to wrists and ankles ... ;)

[Michael_Smith]

Gassho

Stats show that the most likely victims of violent crime in the UK are males age 18-30, usually as a result of alcohol fuelled nights out. Normally for gents this means leather shoes, shirts and smart jeans. For Ladies...well to be fair I don't know, but heels I should imagine are common place. Would it make more sense to train in this sort of clothing over every day “clobber” to see what problems it presents?

Kesshu

[John Ryan]

To continue the realism, maybe we should try training drunk and tired as well...? :)

In case that sounds flippant, I think Mike is right - if you're going to train in own clothes at all, then it should probably be in clothes you'd wear at the riskiest times.

Of course, when it comes to practising sode maki on the Versace shirt, I think that might be going a bit far... :)

[sean dixie]

I've done tired....

John, shame on you! Versace is SOOO last season honey! ;):laugh::eek:

[Steve Williams]

....... to self-defence yourself?

Just a thought :)

Why would I want to self-defence MYSELF?? ;) :)

[Steve Williams]

I have never trained drunk, but have (a while ago) trained hung over.... a good experience....... (gets rid of the hangover as well ;) )

The only two things I would say about training in "normal" clothes (what is normal for one person is alien for another......) is that being able to kick high is irrelevant, in a "real" situation you would never kick above your waist, and probably never above the groin...... also footwear is very important, not to kick as many have said, but to MOVE...... how many times have you "caught" your foot on the floor and stumbled? And thats not when stressed or being "attacked"....... you should be able to move/step/run with ease and comfort to be of any use in a practical situation......

[Peaceful_Farmer]

I believe the question of whether to train in "street clothes" or not depends highly on what you are training for.

Some popular reasons some folks study martial arts are:

To get a regular workout
To hang out with friends
To study battle history
To learn a tradition
To learn self defense


Of these reasons, donning anything other then traditional clothing is basically a waste of time (excepting the occasional "just for fun" of course) for any reason other then #5. However, if reason #5 is truly your primary reason for study, then to forsake the issue of clothing is simply foolish.

[Leelanau]

To continue the realism, maybe we should try training drunk and tired as well...? :)

In case that sounds flippant, I think Mike is right - if you're going to train in own clothes at all, then it should probably be in clothes you'd wear at the riskiest times.

Of course, when it comes to practising sode maki on the Versace shirt, I think that might be going a bit far... :)

Similarly, women who wear heals outside of the dojo should occasionally practice in heals. If not to get them used to a normal situation, it would teach them about how worthless the bloody things are.

Within this last year, I had forgotten my dogi a couple of times (I hadn't done that for over ten years). Though I looked weird practicing in the mirror, I really didn't notice a difference in the feel of my techniques. I couldn't perform particularly high kicks (I normally can kick in excess of 6'3"), but the groin was well in my reach.

[Nina]

Similarly, women who wear heals outside of the dojo should occasionally practice in heals. If not to get them used to a normal situation, it would teach them about how worthless the bloody things are.

At least they can be used as a thrusting.