budo titles: What does SEI mean?

[dengle]

When added to a title such as HANSHI, SHIHAn, etc, what does SEI mean?

I started coming across people using titles like HANSHI-SEI, SHIHAN-SEI

Are these just Americans trying to come up with new Japanese titles?

Thanks.

[Walker]

When added to a title such as HANSHI, SHIHAn, etc, what does SEI mean?
like HANSHI-SEI, SHIHAN-SEI
Thanks.

"Idiot" or "model idiot" or "perfect idiot" is the closest I can come to an accurate translation, but I'm still just a student of the language. Maybe Josh or some of the others may be able to do better or maybe there is something I'm missing...

[lucky1899]

It could be "sincere" or it could be "student" and I'm sure many others. The Japanese language has one "sound" for various kanji (Chinese characters) which each carries distinct meaning. One would have to see the kanji used to determine for sure.

"Shihan student" does sound a bit odd; so in this case, I would vote on the "sincere" meaning but I wouldn't know for sure until I saw the kanji.

Regards,

Andrew De Luna

[Josh Reyer]

I'm pretty sure Doug Walker is on the right track...

[Sukeyasu]

"Sei, sei, sei, sei . . ."

[SLeclair]

It could be "sincere" or it could be "student" and I'm sure many others. The Japanese language has one "sound" for various kanji (Chinese characters) which each carries distinct meaning. One would have to see the kanji used to determine for sure.

"Shihan student" does sound a bit odd; so in this case, I would vote on the "sincere" meaning but I wouldn't know for sure until I saw the kanji.


There are no relevant google results for either "藩士誠" or "藩士生".

I would be curious as to the kanji for "hanshi-sei" and so on, but somehow I expect it's only written in roman characters.

[Mark Murray]

"Idiot" or "model idiot" or "perfect idiot" is the closest I can come to an accurate translation, but I'm still just a student of the language. Maybe Josh or some of the others may be able to do better or maybe there is something I'm missing...

Oooh, oooh! Can I be one of those? I'm just not sure if I've attained the "perfect idiot" yet, but maybe a "model idiot"? LOL!

[Neil Yamamoto]

I've seen this used only in Seido Kai Karate. Since the the "sei" in "seido" is for sincere, I would guess that's the kanji and reference intended.

A friend I've dropped out of touch with had this going on in referring to seniors in Seidokai. I asked him what it meant and he didn't know, other than at 6th dan for a period of time, they used that title, and he thought all arts used it.

I like Doug's answer better though.

[dengle]

I remember when all the "shihan" suddenly became "dai shihan".
I don't know of any Japanese doing the shihan-sei thing. I just thougt I'd ask.

I don't have kanji to offer to help with the translation, since I only saw it on U.S. based web sites.

[Josh Reyer]

There are no relevant google results for either "藩士誠" or "藩士生".

I would be curious as to the kanji for "hanshi-sei" and so on, but somehow I expect it's only written in roman characters.

Just a note. You won't find any relevant Google results for this either, but the "hanshi" you want is 範士, not 藩士.

[Brian Owens]

I've seen this used only in Seido Kai Karate.
There's at least one Uechi Ryu Karate group using it, too.

[Brian Owens]

There are no relevant google results for either "藩士誠" or "藩士生".

I would be curious as to the kanji for "hanshi-sei" and so on, but somehow I expect it's only written in roman characters.
The kanji are probably 範士正.

Try a Google search on that string; you should get a few hits.

[P Goldsbury]

Sei (世) is used as a suffix to mean the same as dai (代). However, I have never seen these without numbers, as for a series.

[SLeclair]

The kanji are probably 範士正.

Try a Google search on that string; you should get a few hits.

Thanks for correcting this "wapuro-baka".

Still, of all the 7 hits in Japanese for the string above, none actually use this as a kanji compound, 範士 is separate from 正, which is itself part of another compound (interestingly enough, 正範士).

Is this then a case of westerners inverting words and syllables, akin to "Sensei naninani"?

[Brian Owens]

...Still, of all the 7 hits in Japanese for the string above, none actually use this as a kanji compound, 範士 is separate from 正, which is itself part of another compound (interestingly enough, 正範士).
I don't read Japanese (just a few characters here and there), but I think this site uses the three together:

http://hk.geocities.com/sudokan_hongkong/Photo18.htm

The caption to the forth photo reads, "本會教練與嶺井南康範士(九段)及伊波康進範士正(十段)合照."

(This may actually be a Chinese-language site.)

[SLeclair]

I don't read Japanese (just a few characters here and there), but I think this site uses the three together:

http://hk.geocities.com/sudokan_hongkong/Photo18.htm

The caption to the forth photo reads, "本會教練與嶺井南康範士(九段)及伊波康進範士正(十段)合照."

(This may actually be a Chinese-language site.)

Yes, I believe this is a Chinese-language site.

I restricted my searches to Japanese language web pages only as this is what's relevant.

[Steve Delaney]

It is a Chinese Site.

[Aden]

Sei (正 formal / correct etc) as a suffix is used by the Tokyo MPD (police) for senior in one stream, a Keishisei 警視正 is a senior superintendent while a Keishi is is a superintendent (and above Keishisei is Keishicho).

So 範士正 are very possibly the kanji for Hanshisei but in a quick look I cannot find any online use of those kanji as a compound outside Taiwan and Hong Kong where 範士正 appears associated with various 9th and 10th dans in miscellaneous arts (like the HK page for a Goju Ryu group linked earlier).

Aden