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ahsq
18th April 2008, 21:18
I have some questions and for easier understanding I included a link to each type of swords I ask.

I hope someone with substantial sword knowledge could help answer:

1. When people say Carbon Steel, what type of steel are they referring to? Is it Surgical Stainless Steel?

2. Does it matter what country the steel is from? China, Taiwan have a bad rep compared to Japan.

3. Which type of Steel should I pay attention to and get for myself?

4. How durable are each STEEL type below:

Surgical Stainless Steel (316 Steel)
http://cgi.ebay.com/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150127052098#ebayphotohosting

420 J2 Steel
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...bayphotohosting

440 Steel
http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-WHITE-NINJA-SWO...1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150126413400#ebayphotohosting

HRC 1060 (#65 High Carbon Steel) <--- why is that so pricy?
http://cgi.ebay.com/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150106111669#ebayphotohosting

5. Should I just get a Machette?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...A:IT&ih=019

6. Or just a eBay.com cheap $40 set? It doesnt say what steel material so I assume its Surgical Steel.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...bayphotohosting

All right, thank you in advance for reading my lengthy post. Please give me comments.!

Phil Hobson
18th April 2008, 21:38
By E-Budo rules, you need to sign your posts with your real name each time.

ahsq
18th April 2008, 21:44
How do i do that? I have full name on the profile. but how do I sign my post?

Soulend
18th April 2008, 23:24
You can edit your signature to include your name. Stainless steel swords are only worthy of display, if you are into tacky displays. Stainless steel makes a passable pocket knife, but a horrible and dangerous blade in sword lengths. Also it's crap, and usually referred to as an "SLO"....a "sword-like object". All of the blades you linked to are crap too, by the way. Not just substandard, but crap of BIBLICAL proportion. If you are considering a machete, you are obviously are not a student of Japanese sword arts, and should thus leave the swinging of three-foot-long razor blades severely alone. I don't even understand the intent or reasoning behind "Should I get a katana or a machete"...they are entirely different tools. Swords are not toys, and you would probably be better off if you left them alone. If you want to learn how to use a katana, find a reputable instructor. If you want to learn how to use a machete, buy one at your nearest flea market and go whack weeds in your back yard. Thank you for your time.

DDATFUS
18th April 2008, 23:28
How do i do that? I have full name on the profile. but how do I sign my post?

Well, you could type your name at the bottom of each post, or you could go to the user CP (there is a link to "user cp" at the top left-hand corner of the page) and set up your account to automatically add a signature to each post.

In answer to your questions, surgical stainless steel is not the same thing as "carbon steel." If you are getting a sword for the purpose of Japanese martial arts, you do not want stainless steel. 440 steel swords are generally referred to as "wallhangers," the implication being that they are cheap knock-off swords good for nothing but displaying on the wall.

As far as just getting a machete goes, if you want to clear the brush in your backyard, yes. Get a machete. If you want something for traditional martial arts practice, don't.

It all depends on why you want this sword in the first place. Are you practicing a martial art? If so, what has your sensei told you about getting a sword?

Kendoguy9
18th April 2008, 23:39
Jeff,

I don't know if it's the best way to do it, but if you go to User CP at the top of the page it will bring up a box to the left that says edit signature. Click that and put your name in. That way your signature will go on the bottom of every post.


As for your question:

Steel is a mix of iron and another element that creates a stronger and harder metal. Depending on what element is mixed with the iron and how much will depend on the properties of the steel. The problem with steeel is that the harder it gets the more brittle it becomes and the more likely it is to break. There are various methods of creating steel for swords that is well beyond my knowledge. Some of the best are carbon steels. Stainless steel is a mix of iron, carbon and chromium. It's great for surgical instruments or smaller knives that need to stay sharp, don't rust and clean easy, but far to brittle for sword use. L6 is a very popular steel to have swords made out of today. I don't know what's in it, but it seems pretty good for swords, even if it isn't traditional. Many smiths make their own steel out of iron an other elements that give them the desired results.

Chinese and Taiwanese sword are often made of stainless steel because they are easy and cheap to make. Real Chinese swordsmiths (not factory workers stamping these wall hangers or sword-like-objects out of a mold) are just as talented as any other real swordsmiths and can produce wonderful swords. Many use their own steels for their swords or high quality carbon steels.

What should you get? Depends on what you are doing. If you want something cool and fancy but that isn't a weapon stainless steel swords can be just fine. They don't cost much and some look cool I guess. If you are a sword collector obviously you would want either an antique sword or one made by a modern talented swordsmith. If you need to clean some brush from your yard a machette will do just fine. If you do martial arts you should really speak to your teacher. Most teachers will have you get a wooden sword or iaito (dull sword). If they tell you to get a stainless steel sword slowly back away and realize your teacher doesn't know anything about swords at all.

To see the quality of stainless steel in sword form, please see this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o-DCk2qhDM

Hope this helps,

ahsq
19th April 2008, 00:59
Thank guys for your wonderful comments. Now I know that I should not get a steel Katana Sword without proper training under professionals. I think I should get a wooden Bokken for a beginner like me.

What type of Wood in a Bokken should I get?

Could anyone tell me what Bokken I should get from the links below:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=bokken&x=0&y=0
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&dfsp=32&from=R40&satitle=bokken&sacat=-1%26catref%3DC6&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=11223&sabfmts=1&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=32%26fsoo%3D2&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search&fgtp=

Brian Owens
19th April 2008, 06:41
Thank guys for your wonderful comments. Now I know that I should not get a steel Katana Sword without proper training under professionals. I think I should get a wooden Bokken for a beginner like me.

What type of Wood in a Bokken should I get?

Could anyone tell me what Bokken I should get from the links below:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=bokken&x=0&y=0
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&dfsp=32&from=R40&satitle=bokken&sacat=-1%26catref%3DC6&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=11223&sabfmts=1&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=32%26fsoo%3D2&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search&fgtp=
I have posted a comment on this question in the other thread where it is posted, here: http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39971

To avoid double posting, this thread should deal only with question and further comments on steel swords, and all comments on wooden swords should be made in the other thread.

Thanks.

JPH
23rd April 2008, 02:05
Hello:

Ok now I can help someone else....

As per your questions:

<I hope someone with substantial sword knowledge could help answer:>

Well I have been making swords for 40 years now so I dunno if that constitutes "substantial sword knowledge " or not but here goes:

<1. When people say Carbon Steel, what type of steel are they referring to? Is it Surgical Stainless Steel?>

These are more or less "generic" terms used fo a whole classification of steel types. Usually these terms are used to "hide" the exact material they are using. "Stainless steel" and "Carbon" Ie, "non-stainless steels" are classification terms and there are sub classes in those terms as well...such as low, medium, highcarbon, tool steel etc...

A GOOD quality maker will not have (or should not have) any problem what so ever in telling you exactly what a blade is made from. For my purposes, for a non hamon blade it is very hard to beat 5160, or 9260.. For ones with differential temperining 1050, 1060, 1070 even L-6 does a nice hamon, not as active as say the lower 10 series steels but it is still "there"

<2. Does it matter what country the steel is from? China, Taiwan have a bad rep compared to Japan.>

If the makers uses AISI, SAE or COPANT spec steels (and a few other international steel recognized specs as well) it really doesn't matter as if they are to spec they will "make the grade"..that is IF the maker is using quality materials. Ask around about any maker or manufacturer.

<3. Which type of Steel should I pay attention to and get for myself?>

I would say if you are actually going to CUT anything with it..9260 or 5160 if you do not care whether or not you have a hamon or not.

If you want/absolutely MUST HAVE a hamon, then 1050 to 1070 carbon steel. L-6/15N20 or a PROPERLY made composite using either kobuse or san mai construction. Be warned...the last two methods are very labour intensive and can esily get into the thousands of $$$ price ranges.

STAY AWAY FROM "Stainless steel" in a sword length piece. Now there are some stainless steels that can withstand the harmonic vibrations, shocks, impact loadings and all the other torques and stresses that a good carbon steel can but these are "specialty alloys" and usually available from a well known and respected maker...Ie a "Custom" piece...

4. How durable are each STEEL type below:

<Surgical Stainless Steel (316 Steel)>
These are the bottom of the barrel ..I use 316 for fittings like guards and pommels...

<420 J2 Steel>

420 J? barely hardenable at all..here again, it's a stainless so give it a wide margin.

<440 Steel>

Now when someone says just 440 Stainless they usually mean 440 A. It is the "poor end" of the 440 series. For decades one of the "standard knife steels" for the custom knife industry was 440-C..An EXCELLENT steel for a knife, too brittle for swords.


HRC 1060 (#65 High Carbon Steel) >

A great steel to forge, actually one of my favourites and when a small amount of Si is added...boy what a great sword steel...even gives a very nice, active hamon. Very forgiving in heat treat but it can crack if you aren't careful.

Now the above are my own opinions, gathered from years and years of research, experience and "field work"..some may or may not agree.

The term you get what you pay for applies very well here when it comes to swords.. For someone starting out...I would go with the best quality you can afford, AFTER you do a lot of research. I suggest you drop by www.iforgeiron.com, it is a blacksmith list but has a bladesmithing section. Ask around there or on Mr Don Fogg's pages...Don't buy ANYTHING until YOU are comfortable with what you want and need...

Hope this helps..

JPH