Steven Seagal

[Juan Perez]

Question: He is the highest ranking American in Aikido? Someone mentioned this to me the other day, but, I have no idea if it's true. Thanks ahead of time.

[MarkF]

Wouldn't that be Tohei Sensei, or even Saotome?

[Joseph Svinth]

Mr. Nonaka of Hilo is ranked 8-dan in the Ki Society.

Mr. Tohei is Japanese.

[Neil Hawkins]

Here's a list from the Aikido FAQ:

Karl Geis - Fugakukai, Oklahoma, 10th Dan

Patrick Auge - Yoseikan, California, 8th Dan
Henry Copeland - Fugakukai, Alabama, 8th Dan
W.W. "Mac" McNease - Fugakukai, Texas, 8th Dan

John Allen - Fugakukai, West Virginia, 7th Dan
Robert Aoyagi - Aikikai, Hawaii, 7th Dan
Charles Caldwell - Fugakukai, Colorado, 7th Dan
Stewart Chan - Seidokan, California, 7th Dan
Chuck Clark - Jiyushinkai, Arizona, 7th Dan
Frank Doran - Aikikai, California, 7th Dan
Harry Eto - Shinshin Toitsu, Hawaii, 7th Dan
Richard Hirao - Aikikai, Hawaii, 7th Dan
Rianard Jackson - Fugakukai, Texas, 7th Dan
Tim Joe - Fugakukai, Texas, 7th Dan
Robert Nadeau - Aikikai, California, 7th Dan
Clif Norgaard - Fugakukai, Arkansas, 7th Dan
Steven Seagal - Aikikai, California, 7th Dan
William Witt - Aikikai, California, 7th dan
Harry Wright - Fugakukai, Alabama, 7th Dan

This only Americans, not foreign nationals now living in the US.

Not quite the highest ranked in the US is he.

Neil

[szczepan]

Originally posted by Neil Hawkins
Here's a list from the Aikido FAQ:

Karl Geis - Fugakukai, Oklahoma, 10th Dan

Patrick Auge - Yoseikan, California, 8th Dan
Henry Copeland - Fugakukai, Alabama, 8th Dan
W.W. "Mac" McNease - Fugakukai, Texas, 8th Dan

John Allen - Fugakukai, West Virginia, 7th Dan
Robert Aoyagi - Aikikai, Hawaii, 7th Dan
Charles Caldwell - Fugakukai, Colorado, 7th Dan
Stewart Chan - Seidokan, California, 7th Dan
Chuck Clark - Jiyushinkai, Arizona, 7th Dan
Frank Doran - Aikikai, California, 7th Dan
Harry Eto - Shinshin Toitsu, Hawaii, 7th Dan
Richard Hirao - Aikikai, Hawaii, 7th Dan
Rianard Jackson - Fugakukai, Texas, 7th Dan
Tim Joe - Fugakukai, Texas, 7th Dan
Robert Nadeau - Aikikai, California, 7th Dan
Clif Norgaard - Fugakukai, Arkansas, 7th Dan
Steven Seagal - Aikikai, California, 7th Dan
William Witt - Aikikai, California, 7th dan
Harry Wright - Fugakukai, Alabama, 7th Dan

This only Americans, not foreign nationals now living in the US.

Not quite the highest ranked in the US is he.

Neil



And how many of them are still practicing (not only teaching)?

[Justin Campbell]

That is a nice list. Break out the Aikikai people and you will see that he just might be (the highest ranking American n the Aikikai). I am not sure of the seniority within the ranks, however, I do know that 3 of the Sensei mentioned just received their 7th Dan.

Back to that list ... does anyone have information on the other group listed (Fugakukai)?

Thanks.
Justin

[Ron Tisdale]

No one has mentioned Amos Parker, Shihan, 8th dan, Yoshinkan. I know he has had some health problems, but I believe he practises as well as teaches. At least, I saw him demonstrate two years ago.

Ron Tisdale

[Kevin73]

From the list that Neil posted, Segal is the highest ranked American in the Aikikai. He is not the highest ranked though when you include other styles of Aikido.

[BC]

Originally posted by Kevin73
From the list that Neil posted, Segal is the highest ranked American in the Aikikai. He is not the highest ranked though when you include other styles of Aikido.



What if we look at seniority in terms of years of experience? From what I understand, there are at least a few Americans within the Aikikai that have been practicing longer than Seagal. Also, I thought I read somewhere that Seagal received his ranking on an accelerated basis to support him in managing his in-laws' dojo in Japan. I'm not saying whether this was appropriate or not, it's just that I get the impression that American aikidoka living and practicing within the US weren't promoted very quickly. There are a few of these Americans at the dojo where I practice, who have been practicing 25-30 years, yet are only ranked nidan or sandan. Is this correct, or am I way off base here?

[MarkF]

Sorry, I thought Tohei was a resident, he just popped up first, that's all.

Mark

[Joseph Svinth]

Interesting that somebody doesn't consider Maui and Big Island to be part of the United States. Either that, or somebody out there doesn't think that the Ki Society does aikido. Why do I say this? Well, Maui's Shinichi Suzuki on Maui got 8-dan from Tohei-S in 1993 and Big Island's Takashi Nonaka got 8-dan from Tohei-S in 1998. And yes, both are US citizens, having been born in the Territory of Hawaii during the 1920s, and yes, both still train with their clubs.

As for seniority in terms of time-in-grade, Mr. Suzuki started training in aikido in 1953 while Mr. Nonaka and Bernie Lau started about 1955. Steven Seagal was born in Michigan in 1950 (or 1951, or 1952, depending on which site you believe). After studying karate with Fumio Demura in Orange County, he took up aikido and got his 1-dan through Tohei-S in 1974. FWIW, in 1974, both Nonaka and Suzuki were graded at least 5-dan in the Aikikai, while Lau was a 4-dan.

BTW, speaking of Mr. Suzuki, note that he's hosting Tohei-S in March 2001. The spouse/significant other might let you go to a seminar on Maui.

[szczepan]

Steven Seagal is not aikidoka anymore.He`s tulku now, and do `talks` instead of aikido practice.

[yipark]

Originally posted by Kevin73
From the list that Neil posted, Segal is the highest ranked American in the Aikikai. He is not the highest ranked though when you include other styles of Aikido.



Robert Kubo, Chief Instructor of the Kailua Aikido Club in Kane'ohe, is an Aikikai-ranked 7th dan. He started aikido in the late 1950s. He's third generation Japanese-American. Hence, Segeal is not the highest ranked American in the Aikikai.

Young-In Park

[Yamantaka]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Joseph Svinth
[B]
As for seniority in terms of time-in-grade, Mr. Suzuki started training in aikido in 1953 while Mr. Nonaka and Bernie Lau started about 1955. FWIW, in 1974, both Nonaka and Suzuki were graded at least 5-dan in the Aikikai, while Lau was a 4-dan.

YAMANTAKA : Is Bernie Lau still teaching Aikido ?

[BC]

What about Donald Moriyama Sensei, 7th dan, Aikikai, Pearl City Aikido Club, started in the early 1950's:

http://www.pixi.com/~psmac/dojos/PearlCity/moriyama.htm

[Joseph Svinth]

All --

Interesting that four of the neglected seniors are Nihonjin from Hawai'i. Wonder if the slight is intentional, or if it is just that somebody hasn't figured out that there is a reason for the US flag having fifty stars.

Ubaldo --

Bernie is semi-retired, but he does a seminar now and again. Talk to Neil Yamamoto if you'd like details, but if you paid his airfare and such, I suspect that he'd be on a plane to Brazil quicker than a government accountant with the payroll.

[Neil Yamamoto]

Joe beat me to the answer.

Bernie does still teach up here and I am stuck teaching his nephew when he takes off on a trip later this year. Giri, don'tcha know.

He will happily travel to teach a workshop, but he is planning on leaving soon for an extended trip to Asia and then the S. Pacific to seek enlightenment, new sights, cold beer,and warm beaches.

Contact me if any questions.

[Yamantaka]

Hi, pals!

That's my up-to-date listing of western yudansha from 7th dan on up. If anyone has further names, please let me know!
Best
Yamantaka

#########################################################

Karl Geis - Fugakukai, Oklahoma, 10º Dan
Shinichi Suzuki – Ki-Aikido, Hawaii(EUA), 8º Dan
Takashi Nonaka – Ki-Aikido, Hawaii(EUA), 8º Dan
Patrick Auge - Yoseikan, California, 8º Dan
Henry Copeland - Fugakukai, Alabama, 8º Dan
W.W. "Mac" McNease - Fugakukai, Texas, 8º Dan
Georges Stobbaerts – Ten Chi Aikido, Lisboa, Portugal, 8º Dan
Amos Parker – Yoshinkai, EEUU, 8º Dan
Christian Tissier – Aikikai, Paris, França, 7º Dan
Gerard Blaize – Aikikai, Paris, França, 7º Dan
Robert Kubo – Aikikai, Hawaii(EUA), 7º Dan
John Allen - Fugakukai, West Virginia, 7th Dan
Robert Aoyagi - Aikikai, Hawaii, 7th Dan
Charles Caldwell - Fugakukai, Colorado, 7th Dan
Stewart Chan - Seidokan, California, 7th Dan
Chuck Clark - Jiyushinkai, Arizona, 7th Dan
Frank Doran - Aikikai, California, 7th Dan
Harry Eto - Shinshin Toitsu, Hawaii, 7th Dan
Richard Hirao - Aikikai, Hawaii, 7th Dan
Rianard Jackson - Fugakukai, Texas, 7th Dan
Tim Joe - Fugakukai, Texas, 7th Dan
Harvey Konigsberg – Aikikai, EEUU, 7º Dan
Robert Nadeau - Aikikai, California, 7th Dan
Clif Norgaard - Fugakukai, Arkansas, 7th Dan
Steven Seagal - Aikikai, California, 7th Dan
William Witt - Aikikai, California, 7th dan
Harry Wright - Fugakukai, Alabama, 7th Dan
#######################################################
P.S. I heard about an 8th dan (Butokukai) from Belgium. Anyone heard about him?

[Yamantaka]

Originally posted by Neil Yamamoto
Joe beat me to the answer.

Bernie does still teach up here and I am stuck teaching his nephew when he takes off on a trip later this year. Giri, don'tcha know.

He will happily travel to teach a workshop, but he is planning on leaving soon for an extended trip to Asia and then the S. Pacific to seek enlightenment, new sights, cold beer,and warm beaches.

Contact me if any questions.

YAMANTAKA : To Joe Svinth and Neil Yamamoto,

Thanks a lot for your information on Bernie Lau.
Best regards
Ubaldo.

[Neil Hawkins]

The list I posted, was an extract that I made from a larger by searching for non-japanese names located in America, it was not meant to be complete and I apologise for missing anyone out.

Please balme me and not the Aikido FAQ.

I will go stand in a corner now.

Neil

[Yamantaka]

Originally posted by Neil Hawkins
The list I posted, was an extract that I made from a larger by searching for non-japanese names located in America, it was not meant to be complete and I apologise for missing anyone out.

Please balme me and not the Aikido FAQ.

I will go stand in a corner now.

Neil

YAMANTAKA : No problem, Neil! No one is blaming Aikido Faq, quite the contrary. We're just doing the same thing you did. Trying to make our own list. Get out of this corner!
Best

P.S. (As to put a balm ("balme"???) on you, forget that! I won't!)

[Edited by YAMANTAKA on 01-25-2001 at 09:12 AM]

[tenshin]

hi people. hmm...since we are on the subject of steven seagal sensei...i was wondering if he is as good as he is in his movies? anyone attend his seminars or seen him aikido in action? thanks :D

[Justin Campbell]

I trained with him at the Santa Barbara seminar way back in 1997. He was excellent. I enjoyed it very much. He was crisp, clean and FAST!

My thoughts.
Justin

[MikeCallender]

Mr Ubaldo Alcantara:
Although my information is not current, Dany LeClerre and Alain Salee are both 6th dan. There exists a strong group of 5th dans, actively promoting and teaching aikido thoughout Belgium and I would not be surprised at additions to this list. I am not aware of an 8th dan, but I recommend contacting the Association Francophone d'Aikido at afa@skynet.be for answers--They can also put you in contact with the Flemish Aikido Association of Belgium
Mr Joseph Svinth
With regard to your thoughts on Hawaiian martial artists--Is it that Hawaiians have done a poorer job of marketing themselves as top-ranked martial artist or is it that geography has put them "out-of-sight and out-of-mind"? To me nowhere else in the United States can you find so many high quality martial artists in such a close proximity. I am surprised that Hawaii is not more of a "Mecca" for US-born martial arts. Comments?
Mike Callender
Yamauchi Japan

[MarkF]

Most people also leave Puerto Rico out when divvying up the goods, but PR isn't a state, only a US territory. Therefore, the US has one gold medal in judo if you do include it, or none if you don't. Personally, If I were the one making up the countries, giving them there own names just for those two weeks every four years, and I were the American representative, I'd be fighting like hell to include them.

Yes, funny about our fiftieth state. It seems no one has gotten the word yet, but it would seem to be a foreign country, or a territory. Where else in the contiguous US could you actually pay so much more than suggested retail for a Big Mac?

[will szlemko]

Hi all,

My sympathies to Hawaii on being left out, I understand all to well (Alaska is left out just as often). While we don't have anyone in Aikido above 5th dan (that I know of) we do have some pretty impressive stats if you include other arts. I can't tell you how many times I have been to a seminar in the continental U.S. and heard that I was an international atendee.

will

[Joseph Svinth]

As a rule, the US media ignores anything that doesn't happen in LA, New York, or Washington DC. And yes, many people consider Alaska, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, and Guam to be foreign countries rather than non-contiguous states and territories. (American Manifest Destiny truly covers only the Lower 48.)

Also, as noted, there are in Hawaii many excellent people in close proximity. (It is truly amazing how many nice old gentlemen turn out to have been Golden Gloves boxers or kendo or judo yudansha in their youth.)

However, many Hawaiians are AJA (Americans of Japanese Ancestry), and in AJA culture it isn't considered good form to brag on yourself. (At least publicly.) Therefore most don't. (At least publicly.)

And if a Hawaiian martial art instructor should brag on himself, then it is quite possible that several industrial-sized Polynesian gentlemen will show up asking for a demonstration. If your stuff is as good as you say it is, then your reputation is made. For example, Tohei Sensei worked this scam on Maui in 1953, and they've loved him there ever since. But if your act is a little off that day, well, let's just say that Aunties have very long memories, and dearly love telling stories about the little nail that stood up when it should have laid down.

Anyway, I think those are some of the reasons why the Hawaiians don't get the credit they deserve.

[Edited by Joseph Svinth on 01-28-2001 at 01:45 AM]

[Joseph Svinth]

Ubaldo --

A few more names for your list. (Search Google, "7-dan aikido")

Alain Floquet, 8-dan Yoseikan, France. http://mageos.ifrance.com/aikibudo74/floquet.htm , http://home.planetinternet.be/~aikibudo/Engels/alain_floqueteng.htm

Christian Tissier, 7-dan, France. http://www.multimania.com/aiki/

Christopher Curtis, 7-dan, Maui (Hawaii, USA).
http://www.maui.net/~cdc/kokyu/intro.html

Erhard Altenbrandt, 7-dan, Germany. http://www.aikido-tvn.de/begriff_a3.htm

Rolf Brand, 7-dan, Germany. http://www.aikido-tvn.de/begriff_b1.htm

Gerhardt Walter, 7-dan, Germany. http://www.aikidopotsdam.de/Walter.html

Kevin Blok, 7-dan, Canada. http://www.jujitsu.no/Instruktorer.html#Kevin%20Blok

Giam Pietro Savegango, 7-dan, Italy. http://www.aikido-oberstenfeld.de/berichte/lehrgang_ofeld_feb2000/ber0002.htm

A Zen koan: If a promotion is held in the forest, and no one from Black Belt is there to record it, was there a promotion?





[Edited by Joseph Svinth on 01-28-2001 at 02:08 AM]

[Joseph Svinth]

Ubaldo --

Also go here -- http://perso.wanadoo.fr/aikido/histo.htm -- for a "Bref historique de l’AÏKI-DO". There are several 6-dan instructors listed in Belgium on Google, but I didn't see any 7s.

[Yamantaka]

Originally posted by Joseph Svinth
Ubaldo --
Also go here -- http://perso.wanadoo.fr/aikido/histo.htm -- for a "Bref historique de l’AÏKI-DO". There are several 6-dan instructors listed in Belgium on Google, but I didn't see any 7s.

YAMANTAKA : Thanks, Joe! You're a Dodo! (Nice Birdie...:))

[Yamantaka]

Originally posted by MikeCallender
Mr Ubaldo Alcantara:

YAMANTAKA : Mr. Ubaldo Alcantara??? That sounds ominous...
Just Ubaldo will do, my friend.

Although my information is not current, Dany LeClerre and Alain Salee are both 6th dan. There exists a strong group of 5th dans, actively promoting and teaching aikido thoughout Belgium and I would not be surprised at additions to this list. I am not aware of an 8th dan, but I recommend contacting the Association Francophone d'Aikido at afa@skynet.be for answers--They can also put you in contact with the Flemish Aikido Association of Belgium
Mr Joseph Svinth
With regard to your thoughts on Hawaiian martial artists--Is it that Hawaiians have done a poorer job of marketing themselves as top-ranked martial artist or is it that geography has put them "out-of-sight and out-of-mind"? To me nowhere else in the United States can you find so many high quality martial artists in such a close proximity. I am surprised that Hawaii is not more of a "Mecca" for US-born martial arts. Comments?
Mike Callender
Yamauchi Japan

YAMANTAKA : Thank you for your information but we're listing only from 7th dan on up. As to the problem of Hawaii, there's a terrible story about a US Senator that went to Hawaii and when he was going back to the Continental US, he said in a speech : "When I get back to my Country..."
One hawaiian couldn't resist and screamed : "You're in your contry, you as%$&#*!"
Best regards

[Yamantaka]

With the help of many friends, our list of high-ranked western aikidoka keeps growing. Ous last update is :
Karl Geis - Fugakukai, Oklahoma, 10º Dan
Shinichi Suzuki – Ki-Aikido, Hawaii(EUA), 8º Dan
Takashi Nonaka – Ki-Aikido, Hawaii(EUA), 8º Dan
Alain Floquet – Yoseikan, France, 8º Dan
Patrick Auge - Yoseikan, California, 8º Dan
Henry Copeland - Fugakukai, Alabama, 8º Dan
W.W. "Mac" McNease - Fugakukai, Texas, 8º Dan
Georges Stobbaerts – Ten Chi Aikido, Lisboa, Portugal, 8º Dan
Amos Parker – Yoshinkai, EEUU, 8º Dan
Christian Tissier – Aikikai, Paris, França, 7º Dan
Gerard Blaize – Aikikai, Paris, França, 7º Dan
Robert Kubo – Aikikai, Hawaii(EUA), 7º Dan
Christopher Curtis – Ki-Aikido, Hawaii(EUA), 7th Dan
Erhard Altenbrandt, DAB, Alemanha, 7th Dan
Rolf Brand, DAB, Alemanha, 7th Dan
Gerhardt Walter, Aikikai, Alemanha, 7th Dan
Kevin Blok, World Kobudo Federation(Aikido Section), 7th Dan
Giam Pietro Savegango, aikikai(?), Itália, 7th Dan
John Allen - Fugakukai, West Virginia, 7th Dan
Robert Aoyagi - Aikikai, Hawaii, 7th Dan
Charles Caldwell - Fugakukai, Colorado, 7th Dan
Stewart Chan - Seidokan, California, 7th Dan
Chuck Clark - Jiyushinkai, Arizona, 7th Dan
Frank Doran - Aikikai, California, 7th Dan
Harry Eto - Shinshin Toitsu, Hawaii, 7th Dan
Richard Hirao - Aikikai, Hawaii, 7th Dan
Rianard Jackson - Fugakukai, Texas, 7th Dan
Tim Joe - Fugakukai, Texas, 7th Dan
Harvey Konigsberg – Aikikai, EEUU, 7º Dan
Robert Nadeau - Aikikai, California, 7th Dan
Clif Norgaard - Fugakukai, Arkansas, 7th Dan
Steven Seagal - Aikikai, California, 7th Dan
William Witt - Aikikai, California, 7th dan
Harry Wright - Fugakukai, Alabama, 7th Dan
#######################################################

Any further help?
Yamantaka

[Tom Douglas]

I have no quarrel with the Fukugukai and its development from Tomiki-ryu aikido. I am just curious who awarded Karl Geis his 10th-dan in aikido. I know that Kenji Tomiki gave him 6th-dan in Tomiki-style aikido.

Any information would be appreciated.

[Tom Douglas]

Never mind. I found further discussion at another thread here. I've got to agree that the self-promotion thing rankles. Still, the Fukugukai present sound teaching and a lot of their people . . . and the Jiyushinkai of Chuck Clark as well . . . can make their aikido work. 'Nuff said.

[George Ledyard]

Originally posted by szczepan


And how many of them are still practicing (not only teaching)?

What is this practicing (not only teaching)? I know in my own case that my back and knees are a bit screwed up and I definitely don't take a lot of ukemi anymore so I supppose that you could say that I am teaching and not practicing. On the other hand I have always felt that when I was teaching I was practicing. Certainly my technique has continued to change drastically year by year even though I am mostly teaching classes. What does this mean/

[szczepan]

Originally posted by George Ledyard

What is this practicing (not only teaching)? I know in my own case that my back and knees are a bit screwed up and I definitely don't take a lot of ukemi anymore so I supppose that you could say that I am teaching and not practicing. On the other hand I have always felt that when I was teaching I was practicing. Certainly my technique has continued to change drastically year by year even though I am mostly teaching classes. What does this mean/

Well, on my level of understanding of aikido, teaching is only a part of practice. As you are surly aware about it, good aikidoka isn’t necessarily good teacher and vice versa. So teaching is somehow separate from practice. A good educator can provide excellent tools for practice but can’t touch essence of art without continual practice.. That means, those who stops receiving techniques and are content only by giving techniques disturbs a harmonious development of his own aikido. There is not balance anymore between Giving and Receiving (not only in strict technical term) .
Aikido training is not for destruction of health. Do you think those instructors ( not necessarily you) who ruined their body by improper training should still provide instruction to ruin health of their own students ?

Of course , teaching change your aikido in many levels. Question is, how U can check out direction of all these changes is good or false ?Normally, receiving techniques provide a tools to do it. Without that, you can’t be sure anymore.
If students can execute techniques on his own instructor, they can never find a right way to do it. In a high level, direct contact with a teacher is only way to learn. Instructor is looked as a kind of model - how students can learn ukemi from him if he never take it ?Particularly in certain stages of development quite advanced students likes to provide resistance as uke. Without proper model they will develop wide range of strange behaviors.

..etc...

In the end, there is always gently way to take ukemi. I got hurt many times, but still keep practice. I never hesitated to ask my partners to be gently with me in such cases. It is also very good practice for them .

anyone care comment ?

[Gil Gillespie]

Mr Jancuk

First, teaching most definitely IS practicing. It's just a different lens through which to perceive the experience. As my sensei light-heartedly told me, if you want to find the weaknesses in your technique observe a mat full of people doing what you just showed them!

Your view of the giving-receiving continuum is interesting and is certainly the skeleton on which all Aikido practice is fleshed out. Yet a student does not need to learn ukemi from his sensei. That's one of the most important jobs of a dojo's sempais. Important elements such as ukemi, etiquette, tradition, breakdown of technique------these are most effectively transmitted through the intimacy of the kohai-sempai relationship, which is ultimately a sensei's legacy and greatest gift to his dojo.

[MarkF]

originally posted by Szczepan Janczuk


Well, on my level of understanding of aikido, teaching is only a part of practice. As you are surly aware about it, good aikidoka isn’t necessarily good teacher and vice versa. So teaching is somehow separate from practice. A good educator can provide excellent tools for practice but can’t touch essence of art without continual practice.. That means, those who stops receiving techniques and are content only by giving techniques disturbs a harmonious development of his own aikido. There is not balance anymore between Giving and Receiving (not only in strict technical term) .
Aikido training is not for destruction of health. Do you think those instructors ( not necessarily you) who ruined their body by improper training should still provide instruction to ruin health of their own students ?



People are people and has nothing to do with aikido, and everything to do with your level of training. Physically, we all fall apart at some time, so when do you think this should be scheduled?

I would say that if a teacher's long time students cannot out do him on the mat or off, he hasn't been a good teacher. The good teacher knows when to give way, when to take their training levels to higher levels, and when his body begins to say no to some things.

No, aikido, or anything else, is not for the purpose of declining health status. It doesn't have to be. One gets these signals when one is ready, then redirects his energy into making one's students better than teacher. by doing this, he becomes better as well, while wishing his students long life and good health.

Mr. Tohei, does he not, give instruction from a chair and knows exactly when and how a student is off, and therefore is still practicing, even if he can't walk a stride or speak a sentence, no? Budo is more than the physical, or have you forgotten your lesson? Everyday we all wake up and see the world with new eyes, and hopefully, we can all continue to benefit society at large.

At Mr. Ledyard's level, his way of staying on his path towards perfection is by taking less ukemi so he can pass on what he has learned and continues to learn himslef -- by teaching others. Only he can say when his step is still on the path, and by speaking about his limitations, he gives more insight than the sixteen year old gokyu who can bounce of walls, and take ukemi all day and all night.

While I have no idea of Mr. Ledyard's age, I bet it is the same as mine. You too, will get there, so be ready for it, and if you are capable of doing the same things then which you do now, with no physical lessening of the step as the end of the path is insight, well either you are one hell of a physical specimen, or more correctly, you will slow when you reach the end of the path -- to perfection. It may be just out of most human's reach, but if you are lucky enough, you may, at least, see it.

As it is, no one will ever get there, but isn't that the purpose of taking the path, to see it?
***

OK, the meter ran well over my two cents, so I owe the driver.:)

[szczepan]

Originally posted by Gil Gillespie
Mr Jancuk

First, teaching most definitely IS practicing. It's just a different lens through which to perceive the experience. As my sensei light-heartedly told me, if you want to find the weaknesses in your technique observe a mat full of people doing what you just showed them!

Your view of the giving-receiving continuum is interesting and is certainly the skeleton on which all Aikido practice is fleshed out. Yet a student does not need to learn ukemi from his sensei. That's one of the most important jobs of a dojo's sempais. Important elements such as ukemi, etiquette, tradition, breakdown of technique------these are most effectively transmitted through the intimacy of the kohai-sempai relationship, which is ultimately a sensei's legacy and greatest gift to his dojo.


and first sempai after a God learn ukemi from.......??? :D

[szczepan]

Mark,

There is a lot of true in your post, however in aikido world there are quite few high ranking teachers about 70 years old and still taking ukemi from his students during evey seminar(ie: N.Tamura sensei from France). And I want to be able to do a streching as he does.

As in aikido we learn aikido all our life, and taking ukemi is the best way of learning particularly at high level it seems very logical consequens to continue receiving techniques also as a teacher.

[Rik]

I heard from the mouth of a well known american aikido teacher in the Sendai region that ranks above godan, within the aikikai, are not based solely on how good at aikido one is.

To my mind this means that money and a fast tongue can lubricate aquisition of higher ranks within this organisation.

comments?