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Prince Loeffler
8th October 2008, 00:49
Gentlemen and Ladies:

I am assisting one of my student who decided to undertake a long term project. So far this is what we both found. The criteria is really simple. This "art" must be established in Okinawa pre-war or post war. if the art was established or founded outside of Okinawa, it does not count. What we are looking for is the Name and the Founder's Name and tyhe current status ( Active, Renamed or Defunct)

____________________________________________________________

A

B

C

D

E

F

G

Goju Ryu - Founded by Chojun Miyagi [ active ]

Gohaku-Kai - Founded by Tokashiki Iken [ Status: Unknown ]

H

I

Ishimine Ryu - Founded by Shinyei Kaneshima [status: Unknown]

Isshin-Ryu Karate - Founded by Tatsuo Shimabuku [ active ]


J



K

Kobayashi Ryu - Founded by Choshin Chibana [ active ]

Kojo Ryu - Founded by Kojo Uekata [Status: Unknown]

Kushin Ryu - Founded by Shintaro Yoshizato [Status: unknown]

Kishaba Juku Karate - Founded by Chokei Kishaba [ active ]


L


M

Matsubayashi Ryu - Founded by Shoshin Nagamine [ active ]

Motobu ryu - Founded by Choki Motubo [ status: undetermine ]

Matsumura Shorin-Ryu - Fouded by Nabe Matsumura [ active ]

Matsumura Orthodox Shorin Ryu - Founded by Sokon Matsumura [ active ]


N

Naha-Te - Founder: Kanryo Higaonna [ Renamed:Goju Ryu]


O

Okinawa Kenpo - Founded by Shigeru Nakamura [ active ]

P


Q

R

Ryū-te - Founded by Taika Seiyu Oyata [ active ]

Ryuei Ryu Karate - Founded by Kenko Nakaima [ active ]

S

Sakunai Hayashi Ryu - Founded by Zenpo Shimabukuro [ active ]

Shuri Te - Founder ( Unknown) [ Renamed: Shorin Ryu }

Shorin Ryu - Founded by Sokun Matsumura [ active ]

Seibukan Shorin Ryu - Founded by Zenryo Shimabukuru [ active ]

Shobayashi Ryu - Founded by Eizo Shimabokuro [ active ]

Shorinji Ryu - Founded by Joen Nakazato [ active ]

Shorei Kan Karate - Founded by Seikichi Togouchi [ Status: Unknown ]

Shinpan Shiroma Shito Ryu - Founded by Shinpan Shiroma [ Status: Unknown ]

Shogen Ryu - Founded by Kensei Taba [ active ]

T

Tomari Te - Founder ( Unknown ) [ Status: Name Changed to Shorin Ryu ]

Toon ryu - Founded by Kyuda Juhatsu [ active ]

Tozan Ryu - Founded by Shinsuke Kaneshima [ Status: Unknown]

U

Uechi-ryu - Founded by Kanbun Uechi [ active ]
V

W

X

Y

Z
___________________________________________________________

To avoid convoluting this thread I opened a separate one for Japan.

Todd Lambert
8th October 2008, 01:11
This may assist you in your research:

http://www-edu.pref.okinawa.jp/hotai/karate/dojolist/

Prince Loeffler
8th October 2008, 01:33
This may assist you in your research:

http://www-edu.pref.okinawa.jp/hotai/karate/dojolist/

Thanks Todd ! Is there an english section ?

Todd Lambert
8th October 2008, 01:45
I haven't seen one. This site may also be helpful:

http://www.okinawa-karate.jp/english/link_intro.html

Prince Loeffler
8th October 2008, 06:35
I haven't seen one. This site may also be helpful:

http://www.okinawa-karate.jp/english/link_intro.html

Thanks Todd ! I have already checked this site. It has good informations. I also hoping that others can chimed in.

For the record, I have already used other literatures as well. \

I like this project a lot as I am learning other styles of karate from Okinawa and Japan.

dsomers
12th October 2008, 19:45
Hi Prince; I do not know if I would really call Shorei Kan a style. It was the name of Toguchi Sensei's Dojo, where he taught Goju Ryu.
Though, he did create Two Fukyu Kata(Unrelated to Nagamine's), Gekiha, & Kakuha, along with Hakutsuru No Mai. He taught these kata in addition to the 12 Goju Kata.

Prince Loeffler
12th October 2008, 20:44
Hi Prince; I do not know if I would really call Shorei Kan a style. It was the name of Toguchi Sensei's Dojo, where he taught Goju Ryu.
Though, he did create Two Fukyu Kata(Unrelated to Nagamine's), Gekiha, & Kakuha, along with Hakutsuru No Mai. He taught these kata in addition to the 12 Goju Kata.

Thanks David , That's why I need all the help I can get. This is a valuable information. I'll take this off the list.

Andrew S
12th October 2008, 22:46
Prince, have you PM'ed members Patrick McCarthy, Harry Cook and Mario McKenna, who are well-known karate researchers?

Prince Loeffler
12th October 2008, 23:22
Prince, have you PM'ed members Patrick McCarthy, Harry Cook and Mario McKenna, who are well-known karate researchers?

No I haven't..I was going to used them last. I's like to used up this resources here first. Whatever is left , these guys can fill it in for.

Thanks

Prince Loeffler
24th October 2008, 00:27
A

B

C

D

E

F

G

Goju Ryu - Founded by Chojun Miyagi [ active ]

Gohaku-Kai - Founded by Tokashiki Iken [ Status: Unknown ]

H

I

Ishimine Ryu - Founded by Shinyei Kaneshima [status: Unknown]

Isshin-Ryu Karate - Founded by Tatsuo Shimabuku [ active ]


J



K

Kobayashi Ryu - Founded by Choshin Chibana [ active ]

Kojo Ryu - Founded by Kojo Uekata [Status: Unknown]

Kushin Ryu - Founded by Shintaro Yoshizato [Status: unknown]

Kishaba Juku Karate - Founded by Chokei Kishaba [ active ]

Kushin Ryu Karate - Kiyotada Sannsuke Ueshima [Status: unknown]


L


M

Matsubayashi Ryu - Founded by Shoshin Nagamine [ active ]

Motobu ryu - Founded by Choki Motubo [ status: undetermine ]

Matsumura Shorin-Ryu - Founded by Nabe Matsumura [ active ]

Matsumura Orthodox - Founded by Sokon Matsumura [ active ]

Matsumura Kenpo - Founded by Kuda Yuichi [ active ]

N

Naha-Te - Founder: Kanryo Higaonna [ Renamed:Goju Ryu]


O

Okinawa Kenpo - Founded by Shigeru Nakamura [ active ]

P


Q

R

Ryū-te - Founded by Taika Seiyu Oyata [ active ]

Ryuei Ryu Karate - Founded by Kenko Nakaima [ active ]

S

Sakunai Hayashi Ryu - Founded by Zenpo Shimabukuro [ active ]

Shuri Te - Founder ( Unknown) [ Renamed: Shorin Ryu }

Shorin Ryu - Founded by Sokun Matsumura [ active ]

Seibukan Shorin Ryu - Founded by Zenryo Shimabukuru [ active ]

Shobayashi Ryu - Founded by Eizo Shimabokuro [ active ]

Shorinji Ryu - Founded by Joen Nakazato [ active ]


Shinpan Shiroma Shito Ryu - Founded by Shinpan Shiroma [ Status: Unknown ]

Shogen Ryu - Founded by Kensei Taba [ active ]

Shorin Ryu Kyudokan - Founded by Yuchoku Higa [ active ]

T

Tomari Te - Founder ( Unknown )[ReNamed: Shorin Ryu ]

Toon ryu - Founded by Kyuda Juhatsu [ active ]

Tozan Ryu - Founded by Shinsuke Kaneshima [ Status: Unknown]

U

Uechi-ryu - Founded by Kanbun Uechi [ active ]
V

W

X

Y

Z

so far this is as far we can go. Still looking thru the net and books as well. If there is anything missing or does not belong to that list let me know !

Thanks !

dsomers
24th October 2008, 01:00
How about Shudokan, founded by Kanken Toyama?

Prince Loeffler
24th October 2008, 01:15
How about Shudokan, founded by Kanken Toyama?

Hi David !

I wanted to add that, but someone ( can't remember the name offhand) told me that Toyama Sensei did not intend for the Shudokan as a ryu or style. Am I wrong to assumed this ? This confuses me.

One more thing to add, if the Shudokan is a style, should this be in the Japanese Karate ryuha section ?

Thanks

chizikunbo
28th December 2008, 16:34
Oyata Shin Shu Ho Ryu - Founded by Taika Seiyu Oyata [Active]

This is Taika Oyata's "Family" art, whereas Ryu Te is his "Public" art.

Prince Loeffler
28th December 2008, 19:25
Oyata Shin Shu Ho Ryu - Founded by Taika Seiyu Oyata [Active]

This is Taika Oyata's "Family" art, whereas Ryu Te is his "Public" art.

Thanks Josh !

dsomers
28th December 2008, 21:41
Is this art taught by anyone in Okinawa still? Was it founded there, or founded here in the US, after he moved here?
Prince, I'm still not sure about Shudokan either. I can tell you that Kanken Toyama is profiled in Nakamoto Masahiro Sensei's new book. A book where he profiles 39 Shuri Te, & Kobudo Sensei.

David

Habusan
29th December 2008, 00:30
Is this art taught by anyone in Okinawa still? Was it founded there, or founded here in the US, after he moved here?
Prince, I'm still not sure about Shudokan either. I can tell you that Kanken Toyama is profiled in Nakamoto Masahiro Sensei's new book. A book where he profiles 39 Shuri Te, & Kobudo Sensei.

David

It was founded there.

Prince Loeffler
29th December 2008, 00:41
Prince, I'm still not sure about Shudokan either. I can tell you that Kanken Toyama is profiled in Nakamoto Masahiro Sensei's new book. A book where he profiles 39 Shuri Te, & Kobudo Sensei.

David

Is there anything in the book that indicates Toyama Sensei's style ?

dsomers
29th December 2008, 03:10
Hi Prince; No, there's no mention of his style. But, the list of people he trained with was like a who's who of that time, including Itosu Sensei, Higashionna, Kentsu Yabu, and bojutsu w/ Oshiro; among others.

Xenophon456
29th December 2008, 03:48
In Regards to Motobu Ryu my understanding is Choki Motobu never studied the art. Because he was not the oldest son he was never taught.
I am not sure how to answer the question of who started the art. Because the name has changed over the years
In 1187 King Shunten studied Go ten te
It is believed that either Motobu Choyo or Uehara Seikichi renamed the art Motobu Ryu

Habusan
29th December 2008, 04:39
In Regards to Motobu Ryu my understanding is Choki Motobu never studied the art. Because he was not the oldest son he was never taught.
I am not sure how to answer the question of who started the art. Because the name has changed over the years
In 1187 King Shunten studied Go ten te
It is believed that either Motobu Choyo or Uehara Seikichi renamed the art Motobu Ryu


I spoke with Mr. Uehara many years ago and he told me Motobu Choki did in fact study the art his older brother learned but only by looking through a whole in the garden wall and spying on him.

Xenophon456
29th December 2008, 07:06
I spoke with Mr. Uehara many years ago and he told me Motobu Choki did in fact study the art his older brother learned but only by looking through a whole in the garden wall and spying on him.

Yes, I have read that before and although I have no doubt that watching the sessions was educational I have trouble listing him as someone who practices the art. This may be my personal hang up. I'll have to spend some time thinking about it. But by what you have told me I think we both agree he should not be listed as the founder?

Nyuck3X
29th December 2008, 20:47
Even if Motobu Choki did learn the family art, IMO, he developed his karate into something else. The way I understand it, The Motobu family art was renamed Motobu Undunte and Choki's art is going by Motobu-ryu. This according to an article I read in the Dragon Times, if I am not mistaken.

Peace in the New Year.

Prince Loeffler
29th December 2008, 20:58
Hi Prince; No, there's no mention of his style. But, the list of people he trained with was like a who's who of that time, including Itosu Sensei, Higashionna, Kentsu Yabu, and bojutsu w/ Oshiro; among others.

This is also my understanding. Again, where does that leaves us with "Shudokan" as well Toyama Sensei ?

Thanks !

Prince Loeffler
29th December 2008, 21:07
Even if Motobu Choki did learn the family art, IMO, he developed his karate into something else. The way I understand it, The Motobu family art was renamed Motobu Undunte and Choki's art is going by Motobu-ryu. This according to an article I read in the Dragon Times, if I am not mistaken.

Peace in the New Year.

Do you remember the source or author of this Ray ? As I understand this, Choki did not have a "ryu" at that time. If anyone can assist me with the following statement if they are facts:

1)Motobu-ryu (本部流, Motobu-ryu?) is a school of karate founded by Choki Motobu in 1923. The official full name is Nihon Denryu Heiho Motobu Kenpo ("Japan's traditional tactics Motobu Kenpo").

Nyuck3X
29th December 2008, 21:41
Here you go Prince.

As per Classical Fighting Arts Issue, Vol. 2 No. 11 (issue#34), page 49, translated by Kiko Asai Ferreira, edited by Feliciano Ferreia and Charles Goodin. "Choki Motobu's son, Chosei Motobu, asked Kiko Asai Ferreira, to work under his direct supervision, and make English translations of the lost interviews. We present those translations here, followed by comments by Chosei Motobu, who carries on the traditions of Motobu-Ryu (from his father, Choki Motobu) and Motobu-Ryu Udunte (from his uncle, Choyu Motobu, as taught to him by Seikichi Uehara)."

Peace.

Prince Loeffler
29th December 2008, 21:55
Here you go Prince.

As per Classical Fighting Arts Issue, Vol. 2 No. 11 (issue#34), page 49, translated by Kiko Asai Ferreira, edited by Feliciano Ferreia and Charles Goodin. "Choki Motobu's son, Chosei Motobu, asked Kiko Asai Ferreira, to work under his direct supervision, and make English translations of the lost interviews. We present those translations here, followed by comments by Chosei Motobu, who carries on the traditions of Motobu-Ryu (from his father, Choki Motobu) and Motobu-Ryu Udunte (from his uncle, Choyu Motobu, as taught to him by Seikichi Uehara)."

Peace.

Thanks Ray !

Xenophon456
29th December 2008, 21:57
Motobu Ryu has a lot of conflicting information on it. My Sensei has a fourth degree black belt in Motobu Ryu. My understanding from him is that Motobu Choki never studied the art. He as warned us several times that in researching the art we should be aware of this misinformation that is out their. If someone really wanted to know I guess the next step would be to contact Seitoku Higa or Uehara Seikichi. I would be really interested in the results.

Nyuck3X
29th December 2008, 22:34
Classical Fighting Arts, Vol. 2 No. 12 (issue #35) has an article about Toyama Kanken.

"Born in Shuri, Okinawa under the family name Oyadomari. Graduated from the Okinawa Yeacher's College. Toyama was a student of Itarashiki Penchin, one of Matsumura's best students. In Taiwan while working as a teacher, Toyama studied Chinese Chuan'fa under Sho Seiko (Japanese reading). in 1935 he traveled to Tokyo and founded the Shudokan dojo and began instructing students. He was particularly skilled at Koryu Useishi (Gojushiho) kata."

The whole article is about his opinion that karate should not be divided into variant styles.
"Even with countless variations, in the end there is only one orthodox style of karate, much the same as there is only one "style" of sumo wrestling and boxing. Indeed, all of them stand upon ability and mental condiioning. What then is a "karate style"."

My take is that he did not want to be classified and that his mindset was that of the older generation that did not have a ryuha, but instead, went by Motobu-ha Karate or Chibana-ha Karate. Your karate was what it was and you stood by your training. No two were alike. Just look at Funakoshi and Mabuni. Both students of Itosu, but their kata were slightly different.

Peace.

Nyuck3X
29th December 2008, 23:07
Motobu Ryu has a lot of conflicting information on it. My Sensei has a fourth degree black belt in Motobu Ryu. My understanding from him is that Motobu Choki never studied the art. He as warned us several times that in researching the art we should be aware of this misinformation that is out their. If someone really wanted to know I guess the next step would be to contact Seitoku Higa or Uehara Seikichi. I would be really interested in the results.

I have not run across any documentation stating that Choki ever learned the entire family art. The most I have read, seems to be his watching from behind a fence or an occasional bout with the elder brother. It is his son that learned both systems. BTW, I believe Uehara Sensei passed away back in '04.

Did your teacher learn through the Uehara line or the Chosei Motobu line? Not that it matters, I was just curious...:)

Habusan
29th December 2008, 23:58
. But by what you have told me I think we both agree he should not be listed as the founder?

Please don't put words in my mouth.
I never said I didn't think he shouldn't be listed as a founder.
Motobu Choki founded his own art, he was not the person that called Goten Di Motobu Ryu, and the two should never be confused. Motobu Choki's son trained for a while under Uehara Seikichi in order to learn the "Gotendi" version of Motobu Ryu. However, Choki's son mainly learned his father art and his Gotendi training was limited, or so I was told.
I believe it was Mr. Uehara that started to use the name Motobu Ryu back around 1947 for respect of the family that taught him.
I think the Motobu family (Choyu and his father) never referred to the art as "Motobu Ryu" but rather as "Gotendi".

Xenophon456
30th December 2008, 00:12
Did your teacher learn through the Uehara line or the Chosei Motobu line? Not that it matters, I was just curious...:)
He learned from Seitoku Higa Who studied under motobu Choyo wsu Motobu Choshin wsu Motobu Chogi wsu motobu Choshyo etc etc.

Xenophon456
30th December 2008, 00:21
..........

Katsujinken
30th December 2008, 14:37
Xenophon456 wrote: 'He learned from Seitoku Higa Who studied under Motobu Choyo'.

Seitoku Higa was founder of the Bugeikan school of martial arts and did not study under Choyu Motobu, he studied with Seikichi Uehara from 1961 and established the Bugeikan martial arts school in 1968, which is now, and has been for some time run by his son Kiyohiko Higa.

The Bugeikan is not a style but more of a collection of various arts that have since been incorporated into something called Seido. Seikichi Uehara was not Seitoku Higa's first teacher, who was in fact Soko Kishomoto of the so called Takemura Shuri Te line. Seitoku Higa was awarded a Shihan Grade by Kanken Toyama (who has already been mentioned in this thread). In fact Seitoku Higa who himself passed away in 2006 had several teachers.

Motobu Ryu was established as a style by Seikichi Uehara in 1947 on the basis of what he had learnt from Choyu Motobu between July 1916 until his migration to Manila in the Philippines on the 24th December 1926, returning to Okinawa in 1947. The correct title of Uehara's art is Motobu Ryu Udun Di.

In 1979 Chosei Motobu (Choki Motobu's son) was first taught for 10 days by Seikichi Uehara and then on a number of occassions after that and he now officially heads both of the Motobu family styles, that of the Daidokan Dojo (established by Choki Motobu) and Motobu Udun Di (established by Seikichi Uehara on the basis of what he learnt from Choyu Motobu). However it is my understanding that there is some Motobu Udun Di style practised on Okinawa by Uehara's students that is separate from the group headed by Chosei Motobu.

Regards

Xenophon456
30th December 2008, 23:00
Xenophon456 wrote: 'He learned from Seitoku Higa Who studied under Motobu Choyo'.

Seitoku Higa was founder of the Bugeikan school of martial arts and did not study under Choyu Motobu, he studied with Seikichi Uehara from 1961 and established the Bugeikan martial arts school in 1968, which is now, and has been for some time run by his son Kiyohiko Higa.

The Bugeikan is not a style but more of a collection of various arts that have since been incorporated into something called Seido. Seikichi Uehara was not Seitoku Higa's first teacher, who was in fact Soko Kishomoto of the so called Takemura Shuri Te line. Seitoku Higa was awarded a Shihan Grade by Kanken Toyama (who has already been mentioned in this thread). In fact Seitoku Higa who himself passed away in 2006 had several teachers.

Motobu Ryu was established as a style by Seikichi Uehara in 1947 on the basis of what he had learnt from Choyu Motobu between July 1916 until his migration to Manila in the Philippines on the 24th December 1926, returning to Okinawa in 1947. The correct title of Uehara's art is Motobu Ryu Udun Di.

In 1979 Chosei Motobu (Choki Motobu's son) was first taught for 10 days by Seikichi Uehara and then on a number of occassions after that and he now officially heads both of the Motobu family styles, that of the Daidokan Dojo (established by Choki Motobu) and Motobu Udun Di (established by Seikichi Uehara on the basis of what he learnt from Choyu Motobu). However it is my understanding that there is some Motobu Udun Di style practised on Okinawa by Uehara's students that is separate from the group headed by Chosei Motobu.

Regards

Thank you very much Chris, Motobu Ryu has been a hard one for me. About a year ago I spent a short time researching it. I found it very frustrating because some of the information I found conflicted. And some of it conflicted with what my Sensei was telling me. I never found in my research that Higa studied under Choyo only under Uehara. I've speculated that maybee he studied under both. My Sensei insisted that Higa studied under Choyo. Now it could of been a language barrier that either my Sensei did not understand my questions or I did not understand his answers. In the end I never pushed the matter I simply tried to be a good student and said yes sir and excepted what he said.

Xenophon456
30th December 2008, 23:02
Please don't put words in my mouth.
. Hubusan I think you mis understood or mis read what I said. What I wrote was not a statement it was a question.

PeterH
14th July 2012, 05:15
Hello Prince,

A little late in coming, but I found this thread just now. Kushin Ryu Karate is still very much alive, although Soke Ueshima has passed away in 1987. At present, Horyu Matsuzaki is the president of Kushin Ryu Karate Do; his son Sawanori was the all karate champion of Japan from 2000 until 2004.

Kushin Ryu is outside of Japan practiced in Australia (see http://kushinryu.webs.com/ ) and has literally millions of practitioners in Indonesia, where it is taught in the army as the main man to man combat style. See also http://www.freewebs.com/kushin-ryu/

Kushin Ryu is derived mainly from Goju Ryu, Shōrin-ryū, Tomari-Te and Konshin Yujoyitsu and therefore embodies a lot of jiu jitsu techniques, which makes it suitable for the army as mentioned above.

Osu,

Peter