What happens when your Sensei dies

[Ade]

Dear All

Gassho

During howa at the New Milton dojo session today we talked about budo.

A junior kenshi asked a pertinent question (when I mentioned the fact that standing up for what's right may cost you your life, but it's worth it.)

They asked; "Sensei; what happens to us once you're gone?"

This has echoes in my mind, because I've also been asked it by a very senior and trusted kenshi just recently.

So, go on then, what's your club's plan?

Oh and ps and by the way failure to consider this plan ensures that your club probably won't survive.

So no pressure then.

Out of the mouth of babes.

Kesshu

[Jock Miyagi]

Funny you should ask Ade.....

My Sensei (Gardner Sensei, Bo'ness) broke his back many years ago in an accident at work. As there were quite a few long time old-timers, when I joined, we were all able to carry on. His recuperation took many years but he was eventually able to get back into his "physical" studies.

During his recuperation we even trained in his back garden so he could advise from the kitchen doorway etc. According to his wife we could never put the clothes line back on the poles properly!!

This incident raised the situation you've just mentioned. Eventually I inherited the club many years later. Not because I was technically better, simply because I had the best memory as the old-timers were getting on a bit by then.

Now that I'm getting on a bit, I've chosen the next "Club Janitor" to take over when I'm no longer able to.

Clubs/Sensei should be aware of this as unforseen circumstances can rob us of people important to us. The group is more important than the person when continuation is the goal.

My Sensei is still alive by the way, not as active as he was, but is still my first port of call for advice. I owe him and all those I trained with a debt I can never repay, for keeping me out of trouble all those years back when I was a bit of a tear-away.

Good point you raised there Ade

[sean dixie]

Always one for the big questions ade:)

No formal plans at Imperial, but as I can only make training once a week I have an excellent team of assistant instructors (John Ryan and Melita Rowley) both of whom would be fine to take over the mantle. The training style would change as everyone develops their own style, some Sensei being intensly technical, others being full on fitness and all variations inbetween.

As an aside (Though I haven't mentioned it to Mizuno Sensei as he has said he doesn't like doing these) but I HAVE said to my friends and relations that in the event of an accident involving the early demise of yours truelly I would like a Shorinji funeral. :cry:

Still, I'm hoping for a few more years yet....;)

[Ade]

Dear All

Gassho

I cannot tell you how long I thought about whether I should post that or not.

But in the end, as my friend Sean rightly points out, it is a BIG question.

My teacher has on many occasions said that if he's ever late for a session we are to start without him and not waste training time, even if he's dead!

I once heard the question asked of Sensei Mizuno (by my teacher) of what we should do if anything ever happened to him.

Sensei replied:

"I don't care, I will be dead."

Which raised a laugh at the time but on reflection isn't funny.

The student who asked me is about 9 years old, always one for the big questions that get right to the heart of the matter are kids!

But it is a stunning question that makes me feel deeply disturbed, as it brings in the issue of mortality, that of my mentors and friends and that of my own.

It forced me to question what we're trying to achieve by all this effort and what's the plan for when the origin of all the direction and advice isn't there any more.

And I haven't got an answer.

Kesshu

[sean dixie]

I've also heard Sensei answer with this response. Maybe it's a Japanese thing, if I remember correctly there is a bit in 'Angry White Pyjamas' where Robert Twigger is talking about his favourite Japanese poet Teshu? Anway, apparently on his death bed he is asked by his wife if he has anything to say for prosperity, he replies "No" and promptly dies.

These responses do say something of the minds they come from, certainly from Sensei's point of view. He has dedacated his life to Budo, a way and teaches as he does - maximum effort always. This is Kongo Zen. However as someone once said, to the educated mind, death is but the next great adventure. Maybe there is this kind of spirit within the Japanese mind, once your gone, your gone and that's it.

I have to say I quite like it, after all what's the point of worrying about the inevitable? I use this idea all the time in my general life - I simply refuse to worry about anything outside of my control, to fret is pointless. If, as a consequense of some action I have made I need to do something to sort it out (as an example to appologise perhaps) then that gets done and the problem is resolved. This way of thinking has lightened my life greatly, I do sometimes get told that I don't take things seriously enough, sometimes I worry people (my boss is a good example here;) ) but for me it works, I laugh at life whilst enjoying it to the full. This attitude in no way stops me forfilling any ambitions or depletes my drive, it just gives me my path through life.

As is said somewhere in the Hagakure, meditation on death is an essential part of the Samurai Way, think about it enough and it will eventually stop worrying you.... gave a Howa on this receintly.

[sonibasra]

I simply refuse to worry about anything outside of my control, to fret is pointless. If, as a consequense of some action I have made I need to do something to sort it out (as an example to appologise perhaps) then that gets done and the problem is resolved. This way of thinking has lightened my life greatly.

Well said Sean. I can relate to that totally. This is probably the biggest lesson I have learnt from Shorinji Kempo. Related to that is 'not to fight with your own nature' meaning that I have realised that there are elements of my personality that will stay, even if I don't like some of their manifestations - other manifestations of the same personality trait I couldn't do without!

[dirk.bruere]

It forced me to question what we're trying to achieve by all this effort and what's the plan for when the origin of all the direction and advice isn't there any more.


The origin hasn't been there for several decades.
Doshin So managed to create a machine that did not totally rely on his own energy, and hence did not immediately fall apart on his death. Since I have no access to the stats it is impossible to say whether it looks like SK will continue onwards into the indefinite future or whether it is in a slow decline that will eventually see it extinguished, albeit in in a century or more. Other such orgs have made the transition successfully, such as the Mormons. Scientology is in the rapid decline mode and I'm interested in seeing what happens to the Unification Church when Rev Moons kicks off.

The core element in success appears to be a well defined purpose coupled with "sacred" texts and a certain flexibility of organisation. Centralisation appears to be negative factor, as does over control. So, my view is that SK will survive long term but not WSKO.

Dirk

[Kari MakiKuutti]

I have to say I quite like it, after all what's the point of worrying about the inevitable? I use this idea all the time in my general life - I simply refuse to worry about anything outside of my control, to fret is pointless.
Then one has to know what is inevitable. Less than most people think. If many things are considered inevitable no better world is coming. Or better self.


As is said somewhere in the Hagakure, meditation on death is an essential part of the Samurai Way, think about it enough and it will eventually stop worrying you.... gave a Howa on this receintly.
Shorinji Kempo is not of the samurai way in the Hagakure.

[sean dixie]

Then one has to know what is inevitable. Less than most people think. If many things are considered inevitable no better world is coming. Or better self..

Hi Kari, death is inevitable unless the person is a theist in which case you believe you live on somehow - not my belief. The second part of the above I'm with you all the way:)



Shorinji Kempo is not of the samurai way in the Hagakure.

I know.:look: I used it to illustrate a point - thinking about these things eventually takes the fear away.

[dirk.bruere]

Hi Kari, death is inevitable unless the person is a theist in which case you believe you live on somehow - not my belief. The second part of the above I'm with you all the way:)

I know.:look: I used it to illustrate a point - thinking about these things eventually takes the fear away.

It's less the fear of death ie non-existence, than the fear of the mechanism and process of death. If death is non-existence then we won't even know it. If there is an afterlife (whatever it may be) then we are not talking about death, just a kind of forced emigration. The fear of non-existence arises because we imagine non-existence and all the things we will miss - which is impossible. It is an illusion. Death cannot be experienced.

Dirk

[Tripitaka of AA]

Caution: This post was not written by a drunk old man, but you might think it was. I apologise if it feels like a waste of your time reading it.

When my father died, it was after a five year battle with cancer. He was never a fighter, but often showed indomitable spirit and a determination to continue his existence. That is a characteristic that is often shared by people of his generation (whether that is as a result of WW2, or a possible explanation for their survival ... I'm not sure). He told me that I had to ensure that no fuss was made on the occasion of his death, and made me promise to deal with the funeral arrangements with the minimum possible expense - "A black rubbish bag and a bonfire" would have been sufficient, apparently. His own preparation for death was fairly simple. He refused to hear subtext whenever a doctor spoke to him about the prognosis.

He was never into any religion as far as I know, so quite where his perspective came from I am not sure.

In terms of preparing for the future, after his passing... well... he didn't. He used to say "When I'm dead, I'm gone. That's it." so it was up to the survivors to deal with whatever needed to be dealt with. You could say that the way this was done showed how much he had instilled in us during his life. Strangely, he was given a cremation and a service that included the playing of some music, some singing and some nice speeches. It wasn't for him. It was for the people left behind.

His philosophy would have been to get on with life. The family realised that saying it is one thing, but doing it requires something more. We could get on with life as long as we tied up the loose ends and dealt with our grief in a constructive way.

When Sensei dies, there will be introspection, assessment and moving on. Some people may disagree on future decisions and will refer to "what Sensei would have done". Sensei would do what was right, and make the decision with a strength of conviction that leaves no space for doubt or hesitation. If Sensei has students who seek to emulate him, then they will step forward and take control whether there is a formal arrangement or not. Standing tall and strong, instinctively knowing when to act and when to pause.

Sometimes my stream-of-consciousness posts make sense. Sometimes I am reminded of Bruce Baker (E-Budo member from a few years ago who made my posts seem like a post-it note).

[Ade]

Caution: This post was not written by a drunk old man, but you might think it was. I apologise if it feels like a waste of your time reading it.

Gassho

Actually what Dave has done for the very first time in this entire post is talk about a very private subject from a personal viewpoint.

I don't want this thread to be diverted into a discussion about what people think about what happens next to the essential life force in the next astral plane, to be honest I'd rather bet on

UTTOXETER
3.05 Diamond Harry - who graduates to hurdling after two solid efforts in bumpers. Timmy Murphy sticks with him which must be of significance, however the worry is Nick Williams horses have all needed their first run.

Right, now that the discussion on the validity of religion is over, back to the nub.

Without being maudlin, what's going to happen to you (all) once your Sensei is dead?

What plans has she/he/you made?

Because, and here's the truth, IT WILL HAPPEN, and you need to deal with it, rather than avoid the subject and be ambushed by it.

Thanks Dave, Sean and Kari for being brave enough to start discussion rather than pontification.

Kesshu

[dirk.bruere]

All very timely, since I'm writing out my Will tonight.
And should I be struck down by a bolt of Cosmic Irony before I can finish it let it be known that I want everything I own to go to Fiona MacKenzie.

Which brings me to the point - make a Will. Unless you are happy with the default option, which is next of kin gets everything or a family fight to the death if you happen to be rich. At the end of our lives most of us in the Western world have a fair quantity of stuff, including valuable assets. Consider bequeathing a small percentage of it (which might be quite large in terms of cash) to whatever cause you consider worthwhile. Which obviously includes SK.

Dirk

[Robert Liljeblad]

Hi Ade,

A couple of years ago one of the pioneers of Swedish Shorinjikempo did pass away. I have been thinking of this a lot since I was just a kid when I started to practice in he’s shibu. Looking back now understanding the tremendous effort that he did put in for the Shorinjikempo life that he lived I see that he is still the reason why we have continued to develop Shorinjikempo in Sweden and that I started to practice. He did not leave one good student but several that today are running their own shibu.

If you live according to the way and inspire others to join in and live according to the way isn’t that enough. To make one student that would like to continue practice according to the way and when you are gone continues to seek their own path along the way, is for me enough.

I believe that a great Sensei should not be measured on he’s technique skills because that is only a small part and the measurement of senior kenshi. A great sensei should be measured on the quality of he’s students.

Gassho,

[Blue Popovic]

Quite interesting timing Ade.

Only a few days ago, Mizuno Sensei's delivered howa on that very matter. That the death of a close one, or even one's sensei is one of those pivotal moments in one's life where we face great challenges : am I ready to keep going, am I strong enough to go through it, will I use the moment to reflect and give my life a new direction/ am I strong enough to not let anything make me feel down? what is my true strength and where does it lie?
And talking about the time when he himself will be gone, Sensei said he doesn't want a funeral, he would like us to celebrate, to get together and rejoice, ... and maybe have a big karaoke!