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View Full Version : My self defense "magic formula".



tgace
22nd November 2008, 20:13
As a LEO I believe I can give you the “magic formula” to avoid 99% of “street attacks”:

Don’t participate in illegal activity. Don’t hang out with people who attract trouble (need I clarify that?). Don’t hang out in places that attract trouble. Don’t get drunk or high. Don’t tolerate domestic violence, call the police and/or leave the abuser. Be alert to your surroundings and if something “feels” wrong…leave. Many people stick around thinking that they are being needlessly paranoid.

For that remaining 1% of instances where you are attacked while just “minding your own business”. Study an art that exposes you to striking/grappling/fighting with a resisting opponent and exposes you to getting hit and working through exhaustion and stress. Be aware of your states self defense laws, and have a plan for “post-incident” already thought out.

And throughout it all, everyday, practice your skill sets.

Hissho
23rd November 2008, 00:34
Well said!

Nii
23rd November 2008, 02:57
Tgace, you're the one that seems paranoid to me. You basically suggest avoiding nightlife to prevent running into trouble.

tgace
23rd November 2008, 07:48
If you want to be 99% safe than yeah I guess I am saying that. Im happy with above 50% for my personal (non work related) life. However I am aware of what activity poses a greater risk.

I just said I could tell you how to avoid getting into self defense situations 99% of the time and I stand by it. We all have to balance our lives with our safety. Some things are worth more risk than others. That choice is yours and yours alone...just be aware of it.

The odds of getting into SD situations when the people around you are drunk and/or you are drunk are exponentally higher.

The chance of being a victim of violence in your own home by someone you live with is exponentally higher than being attacked on the street by a stranger.

Those are simply facts. Its up to you what you do with them. Be aware, be informed.

Never said "never do these things".

Pays your money takes your chances......

Brian Owens
23rd November 2008, 09:22
Tgace, you're the one that seems paranoid to me. You basically suggest avoiding nightlife to prevent running into trouble.

It's not paranoia (a disturbed thought process characterized by excessive anxiety or fear, often to the point of irrationality and delusion), it's common sense situational awareness. Avoiding "nightlife" will reduce your exposure to trouble. If you're willing to increase your risk level in order to increase your entertainment level, that's a choice that's yours to make.

Duanew
23rd November 2008, 12:11
will[/i] reduce your exposure to trouble.

It will also reduce the likelihood of unplanned pregnancy, sexually transmitted diseases, headaches, heartaches, having to apologize for something you have said or done, regretting something you have said or done or wondering what you might have said or done:)
I would like to add one more-don't hang out around or with stupid people.

Duane

Senjojutsu
23rd November 2008, 13:28
It will also reduce the likelihood of unplanned pregnancy, sexually transmitted diseases, headaches, heartaches, having to apologize for something you have said or done, regretting something you have said or done or wondering what you might have said or done:)
I would like to add one more-don't hang out around or with stupid people.
Duane

Well being a hermit has its drawbacks too, perhaps as a compromise for the socializing nightlife young adults here - the common sense saying that your father or uncles should have told you by now... multiple times.



Wait for it...




NOTHING GOOD HAPPENS AFTER MIDNIGHT.
:D

TonyU
23rd November 2008, 15:30
Another one which you can supplement to what tgace posted but is harder for some is "check you ego". You have nothing to prove. Sometimes it's just better to walk away.
An example is getting cut off in traffic. We have many instances of road rage where the participants allow themselves to lose control only to have one of them in the hospital or dead for stupidity. You get cut off, let it go.

Hissho
23rd November 2008, 15:50
It's the minding your own business part that is at issue. Too many folks go way to far with this, and don't pay any attention to what they are doing, to situations they are placing themselves in, or to overall situational awareness.

You CAN go out and enjoy nightlife, safely, keeping Tom's advisory in mind, and without being paranoid. You just have to pay attention. You should be paying attention no matter where you are, what time it is, and who you are with - and even to how THEY are acting and being perceived.

There should be no quibble with the recommendations for a striking/grappling art, or for an art that exposes you to getting hit, thrown, locked, pained. Conditioning is also huge. Some self defense exponents believe that "real fights" last only a short period of time and therefore conditioning does not come into play. This is dangerously wrong.

If it is a serious altercation, the adrenal spike alone can be debilitating for unconditioned, out of shape people who compound the issue by not having much, if any, experience in adrenal stress inoculation training or "live" self defense related antagonistic work.

Likewise, if one is injured during a confrontation, conditioning will often make the difference in being able to walk away.

Incidentally, while I dislike a primary focus on competition because I think playing to the rules has a corrupting influence on optimal self defense application, competitive fighting (Judo, wrestling, kickboxing, boxing, MMA, sub grappling, etc.) is an excellent tool for developing both conditioning and performance stress inoculation. Through this alone the competitive fighter often has a major advantage over the non-competitively trained combatives practitioner or martial artist.

TonyU
23rd November 2008, 16:01
There should be no quibble with the recommendations for a striking/grappling art, or for an art that exposes you to getting hit, thrown, locked, pained. Conditioning is also huge. Some self defense exponents believe that "real fights" last only a short period of time and therefore conditioning does not come into play. This is dangerously wrong.


Or as Kit can attest, if it doesn't last very long but between exerting all you energy for that period of time plus with the adrenalin you can get exhausted pretty quick.

Joseph Svinth
23rd November 2008, 22:20
I thought that nothing happened after midnight, except what happened before, just one more time.

As for the domestic violence, I always find it astonishing how many people live with their abusive ex-spouses (sometimes, multiple divorces), and then wonder why they are depressed.

tgace
23rd November 2008, 22:29
It will also reduce the likelihood of unplanned pregnancy, sexually transmitted diseases, headaches, heartaches, having to apologize for something you have said or done, regretting something you have said or done or wondering what you might have said or done:)

And paying bail. :)

tgace
23rd November 2008, 22:35
I thought that nothing happened after midnight, except what happened before, just one more time.

As for the domestic violence, I always find it astonishing how many people live with their abusive ex-spouses (sometimes, multiple divorces), and then wonder why they are depressed.

Domestics are a complex mixture of issues and behaviors. While it appears like a "no brainer" to us....just leave..its far from easy for the people involved.

TonyU
24th November 2008, 14:23
Domestics are a complex mixture of issues and behaviors. While it appears like a "no brainer" to us....just leave..its far from easy for the people involved.

Here's an incident that happened in our jurisdiction that underscores this statement by Thomas. In this case the victim did leave, across the country at that. Unfortunately it didn't save her.

Church Shooting (http://www.northjersey.com/news/BREAKING_Shots_reported_at_Clifton_church_.html)

tgace
24th November 2008, 21:37
We just had a similar event in our area last month. After years of abuse she finally left him. Then murder/suicide.

Bill Sampson
1st December 2008, 04:48
It only takes one individual who with the aid of alcohol and other drugs to ruin everyone’s day. Being a victim of random violence is more likely to occur in a city’s nightlife areas where the volatile mix of youth, culture, drugs, gangs… just make for an environment where violence can spark with extreme ease. Sadly, one just has to have the unfortunate luck of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

MikeWilliams
1st December 2008, 13:16
While that is true, the chances of being blindsided of a genuine unprovoked attack are very slim, even in a large metropolis like wot I live in. Most violent incidents should should be anticipate-able (is that a word?).

I agree very much with tgace's original post, but there is one key element missing: work on your communication skills! I'm guessing that the large majority of nightlife related incidents involve miscommunication in some form or another - and situational awareness will only get you so far if you act like a jerk.

Seriously, verbal (and non-verbal) de-escalation skills can be taught and trained, but how many bother?

Bill Sampson
1st December 2008, 20:26
Violence can happen anywhere, for sure. One doesn’t have to get assaulted per se; even exposure to violence is going to have a psychological effect on a person.

For example Seattle’s Bell Town, Pioneer Square, and Capitol Hill areas, violent attacks are unfortunately common. Last year in a club on Capitol Hill a youth carried a gun past security and ending up shooting three people; two of which were just there. Since mid- October of this year there have been 4 shootings in the Bell Town, one a young woman who was not a combatant was shot in the head while she was sitting a car. The gun fight took place in a parking lot between two buildings where the greatest concentration of night clubs is. At 11:30PM there are thousands of people in Bell Town partying at the clubs. And on this night there were lots of people walking out to go to another club or grab a cream cheese hotdog. What started this fight was one guy walked out in front of the car as it was pulling out of the parking spot. A verbal conflict ensued and one guy was shot in the thigh, groin, and chest. There was a total of at least 8 rounds discharged, 3 in the one guy and one in the head of the girl. The other 4 went someplace, and very fortunately no one else was shot.

Easy to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Kevin73
2nd December 2008, 19:38
Violence can happen anywhere, for sure. One doesn’t have to get assaulted per se; even exposure to violence is going to have a psychological effect on a person.

For example Seattle’s Bell Town, Pioneer Square, and Capitol Hill areas, violent attacks are unfortunately common. Last year in a club on Capitol Hill a youth carried a gun past security and ending up shooting three people; two of which were just there. Since mid- October of this year there have been 4 shootings in the Bell Town, one a young woman who was not a combatant was shot in the head while she was sitting a car. The gun fight took place in a parking lot between two buildings where the greatest concentration of night clubs is. At 11:30PM there are thousands of people in Bell Town partying at the clubs. And on this night there were lots of people walking out to go to another club or grab a cream cheese hotdog. What started this fight was one guy walked out in front of the car as it was pulling out of the parking spot. A verbal conflict ensued and one guy was shot in the thigh, groin, and chest. There was a total of at least 8 rounds discharged, 3 in the one guy and one in the head of the girl. The other 4 went someplace, and very fortunately no one else was shot.

Easy to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.


That goes back to what the original poster said. 99% of this stuff can be avoided. Every situation you posted it was in or near nightclubs. Part of self-defense is KNOWING where you go. If Bell Town has "random" trouble it is not a random thing, it keeps happening. You should be aware enough of this to avoid going to clubs in that area.

I am in LE and there are certain places I don't go on the weekend because of the people who go there, but if you go at 5-6pm on a weekday it is completely different. It doesn't take long to figure out if the place you are in is a brewing ground for trouble. Yes, trouble can happen anywhere, but I agree that 99% of it can be avoided by the times and places you go.

tgace
2nd December 2008, 21:53
And who you hang out with and the activity you choose to engage in.

MegasAlexandros
23rd December 2008, 04:21
very interesting comments from every one, I think you just have to always be aware of whats going on in your surroundings, keep in mind that alcohol impairs your judgment.... and well as my sensei says, you don't have to be miles away from where the attack is in order to be unharmed, half of a millimeter is enough to walk away unscratched, so if you happen to be out clubbing in a dangerous area, or if you happen to be in the bank while some a-hole is trying to rob it, you just have to be aware of whats going on, and make sure you do not occupy the same half square inch area the bullet occupies.

Richard Scardina
29th December 2008, 12:09
As a LEO I believe I can give you the “magic formula” to avoid 99% of “street attacks”:

Don’t participate in illegal activity. Don’t hang out with people who attract trouble (need I clarify that?). Don’t hang out in places that attract trouble. Don’t get drunk or high. Don’t tolerate domestic violence, call the police and/or leave the abuser. Be alert to your surroundings and if something “feels” wrong…leave. Many people stick around thinking that they are being needlessly paranoid.

For that remaining 1% of instances where you are attacked while just “minding your own business”. Study an art that exposes you to striking/grappling/fighting with a resisting opponent and exposes you to getting hit and working through exhaustion and stress. Be aware of your states self defense laws, and have a plan for “post-incident” already thought out.

And throughout it all, everyday, practice your skill sets.

I agree with this and try to teach this among my students. However, I keep telling them it doesnt matter what art one trains in, there is the art of mental awareness. Not just on the plane of thinking of a fight scenario in a bar, etc. but also the legal ramifications and the large possibility of being able to leave before esculation.

I have lived in many "party cities" and yes, the percentage of physcial confrontations increase per the environment.

I have been to clubs in my youth and on ocassion for special events, meet up with friends and relatives, partaking slightly in alcohol consumption (per only as a means of socialising). It has been decades since I had been drunk, so it is a mindset.

I tend to think this mindset is a precautionary one and not one of paranoia.

tgace
30th December 2008, 16:02
I agree with this and try to teach this among my students. However, I keep telling them it doesnt matter what art one trains in, there is the art of mental awareness. Not just on the plane of thinking of a fight scenario in a bar, etc. but also the legal ramifications and the large possibility of being able to leave before esculation.

I have lived in many "party cities" and yes, the percentage of physcial confrontations increase per the environment.

I have been to clubs in my youth and on ocassion for special events, meet up with friends and relatives, partaking slightly in alcohol consumption (per only as a means of socialising). It has been decades since I had been drunk, so it is a mindset.

I tend to think this mindset is a precautionary one and not one of paranoia.

Exactly. I have been known to partake on occasions ;) The issue is, who you are with, where, how often, how stupidly, and how carelessly you go go about it.

Richard Scardina
31st December 2008, 07:11
Exactly. I have been known to partake on occasions ;) The issue is, who you are with, where, how often, how stupidly, and how carelessly you go go about it.

Agreed.

But in the aspect of such, it would seem many "mature" out of the "carelessness". So, with this "maturity", using caution, other that do not have this, tend to think of it as paranoia or lame.

In 1978, a community council woman, whom known my mother, upon learning that I did martial arts, had asked;

"What way, as a martial artist, does your self defense curriculum, differ from other martial artists?"

I started to do much self-examination and found my answer within to be; I was no different.

Under such a profound statement from one of my instructors, he always used to say;
"Don't take my word for it - go out and seek information and learn more - knowledge is infinite and learning devine."

So I set upon searching and learning.

I had found out that self defense or defense has a lot of mental and philosophical information that mere physical tactics cannot cover.

After gathering much data, attending many classes apart from my college curriculum, like crimnology, psychology, advanced sociality, etc., I was ready to conduct my first of many, free public defense awareness seminars. (Notice how I stated "awareness".

For these seminars I invite outside people such as;

Attorneys - (To explain legal concepts of defense)

Psychologists - (To explain and understand assailants, victims, and violence)

LEOs - (To give account of street situations, encounters, and discussions)

Reflecting upon my past experiences and observations, by most accounts, my stats were interior. There wasn’t room and time for a fight to end up on the ground. I can see were LEOs would have to. Having to subdue a perp. BTW- I had observed a LEO trying to subdue a perp and before they could get to the ground, the perp punched the officer so hard, to KO and break his jaw. People stepped in. The LEO was taken off-guard by the smaller perp. I tend to think that the LEO was too complacent.

Ground fighting stats may have to be linked to most outdoor confrontations. There were others there to break it or disrupt it by others wanting to be involved. As far as "If a fight is interrupted, it may not be a fight at all"-a fight is any physical confrontation to do bodily harm.

One should train in ALL aspects of fighting if one is to be effective. Some people who hold firmly to the "most fights end up on the ground" look to somewhat dismiss the idea of the need to block and strike.

The strange thing about fighting is that much of the population does not train nor fight.

I can't remember the last time, or any time my father, mother, sister, aunts, uncles, etc., had to train to fight or had been in a fight.

Why do these people of the large populace find it not necessary?

tgace
31st December 2008, 20:27
Great post and great points...we have common philosophies in regards to "self defense".

Why do so few people find training for fighting unnecessary? Because for the average person, living a "normal (read:low risk) lifestyle" it isnt really a necessity. That said, even the average person should have the wisdom to address physical security and self-protection the same way they look at smoke detectors and door locks. Even some bare basics seminars from a reputibale instructor is better than nothing.

Expecting "joe six-pack" to spend the same ammount of time, money, efffort and tought on the subject as we here do just isnt going to happen. We find this stuff necessary due to either profession, risk, hobby or just plain interest/obsession or "calling".

Xenophon456
1st January 2009, 01:31
I've found that hanging around with people that drink cheap beer leads to trouble.

Bill Sampson
1st January 2009, 02:59
Why do so few people find training for fighting unnecessary? Because for the average person, living a "normal (read:low risk) lifestyle" it isnt really a necessity. That said, even the average person should have the wisdom to address physical security and self-protection the same way they look at smoke detectors and door locks. Even some bare basics seminars from a reputibale instructor is better than nothing.

Most gangs don't have the budget contraints that I do personally or that my agency does professionally- to train and obtain thier tools of thier trade. And train they do, Oh yeah.

I assume everyone I contact is better trained than I am. So that before I contact that person I have evaluated how I am approaching that person, where their hands are and what their hands are holding, how they are standing as I approach them and how aware they are of me approaching them and how aware they are of thier environment. I am very aware for pre-fight indicators and given the nature of the contact if they are presenting with factors that would make me want to frisk them. I keep my hands up, in a postition that is none threatening but I have my hands up all the time.

I do everything I can to give me an edge should a person decide, for whatever reason, that I am a threat to them. And I do this even during social contacts and it's more overt when I am contacting someone when I have the lawful right to detain them.

This kind of behavior applies to entering a building or exiting a building or a car.

That's at work...

But after awhile of doing doing this, I can't help but do it even when I am off duty. Especially if I am with my kids! If I am in a place that just kicks my awarness level up a notch, it goes up almost without me being aware of it. That's just a by-product of working in Law Enforcement, or a field where spatial awareness is neccessary to stay safe.

So I think anyone with a little effort towards building a safety awareness mind-set, can build a habitual set of behaviors that can increase the chances of avoiding conflict and how to deal with it when it does happen. It might start with thinking about what kind of locks you have on your doors. What kind of windows you have and what kind of vegitation there is in front of that window. Then you can think about how you approach your car when you are alone, and it's night, and you might want to have your keys out before you get close to the car. You might want to carry a flashlight that puts out 80 to 120 lumens of light. If you a women and you carry a purse, think about how you carry it. Think about where you are and where you are going and if the shoes you are wearing are going to aid in or hinder you from running away or moving quickly. Think about your posture when you walk, and how you carry yourself. Preditors prey on the weak, those who shuffel thier feet and walk with thier heads down are more likely to be attacked than someone who walks with thier head up and with a confident walk.

There is just so much a person can do, and litterally once it becomes a habbit, it doesn't take any real effort.

I have to add that my behavior does sometimes drive my wife insane. She doesn't understand why I pass up the empty parking spot directly in front of the corner market we want to go to, and instead park in a spot where she has to walk 20 yards to get tot he front door. But then, we have never walked into a convienence store that was in the middlle of getting robbed at gun-point either.

When I point that out to her, she agrees the hassle of the extra walk is worth putting up with.

Be safe and Happy New Year to everyone.

BlackPaladin
1st January 2009, 03:26
I've found that hanging around with people that drink cheap beer leads to trouble.

The George Thorogood Principle.

tgace
2nd January 2009, 00:38
I have to add that my behavior does sometimes drive my wife insane. She doesn't understand why I pass up the empty parking spot directly in front of the corner market we want to go to, and instead park in a spot where she has to walk 20 yards to get tot he front door. But then, we have never walked into a convienence store that was in the middlle of getting robbed at gun-point either.

When I point that out to her, she agrees the hassle of the extra walk is worth putting up with.

Be safe and Happy New Year to everyone.

Heh! My wife now lets me sit with my back to the wall and facing the enterance out of habit.