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dr.j.m.wolters
4th February 2001, 16:35
Does anybody study/teach Budo as a special method of Education (Paedagogik) or Therapy ?

For example to become a >Paeceful Warrior< (what means a special Budo-training against violence/aggression with juvenile delinquencies) ?

I am very interested in ideas, projects, experiences, contacts, because there are such courses in Germany under my responcebility.

Thank You
J.M. Wolters

MarkF
5th February 2001, 09:36
Dr. Wolters,
Welcome to E-budo!:wave:

In your profile, you state as an interest "budo-psychology." Is your interest as a psychologist, in the martial ways for therapy as part of your practice? Or is your education in martial ways as a "cure" or betterment of those with an affliction, with an education in budo?

If I'm not being clear, it wouldn't be the first time.:)

Actually, there have been posts on this very subject, or at least how one must teach/treat a child with Attention Deficit Disorder, or learning disabilities of all kinds. While your question is certainly welcome here, you may get more answers if you were to post this also in the "Teacher and Student Forum" under the heading DOJO.

Many of us here would very much appreciate imput by a child psychologist, as many have recommended such training for children with disabilities, not to mention adults. Some here have or have had experience in this area, and may have opinions and ideas which pertain to the specific question.

"Budo for peace" to me is redundant, as I believe budo to be exactly that, even going back as far as the samurai/bushi era. Since virtually any type of budo is meant to stop violence, not to start it, I think it most important to explain the purpose of learning these taijutsu arts, especially to those who are there to learn to hurt people.

Check the threads under "Teacher and Student." There should be some which interest you.

Mark

PS: I wish my German was better, so as to read your website. However, there are several here who do speak German and will have an easier time. Do you plan to make it available in English any time soon?

Joseph Svinth
5th February 2001, 11:10
Aikido applied to psychology, try Lynn Seiser's articles at http://ejmas.com/jalt/jaltart_seiser1_0500.htm and http://ejmas.com/jalt/jaltart_seiser_0800.htm

Karate used to get at-risk youth into supervised programs: http://www.juvenilelaw.org/1297fm.htm and http://www.calib.com/nccanch/pubs/usermanuals/treatmen/issues.htm

The stuff told schoolboards to get TKD accepted as a varsity sport: http://www.ladytkd.com/randy.html

The principal calling the local kickboxing dojo after the juvenile beats up his girlfriend: http://w3.tvi.cc.nm.us/~mercedez/kickboxing.htm

dr.j.m.wolters
5th February 2001, 11:31
Dear Mark, dear Joe,

thank You VERY MUCH for Your friendly welcome, tips and information !

I will reply soon...

Yours

Jörg-M. Wolters

Joseph Svinth
5th February 2001, 12:33
From looking at your website, it appears that you have established an accredited course teaching pedagogy to existing martial arts teachers, and the first class graduates in April 2001. After completing 300 hours of training, most of which is on weekends, the teachers get a diploma. The style of the practitioners is irrelevant; the idea is how to teach martial arts in general, not any specific style. If so, to see an accredited US college martial art program, go to http://www.indiana.edu/~martial/certificate.htm . Meanwhile, for an earlier E-budo discussion on related topics, see http://204.95.207.136/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=3991 . Probably the much smaller course described here is closer to what you offer.

It appears that you simultaneously offer Samurai Businessman courses. From a historical standpoint, Cameron Hurst III is not too thrilled with this idea; see his article "Musashi on Wall Street" at http://ejmas.com/jalt/jaltart_Hurst_0101.htm

If I misinterpreted anything, I apologize, but perhaps this will at least get the conversation started.

dr.j.m.wolters
5th February 2001, 14:35
Dear Joe,
I am very impressed of your helpfull efforts and thank you very very much ! Your homepage is very interesting, too...

Yes you are right: On one hand I offer special education-programs (with official academic diploma) for Martial Arts Teachers of any (traditional) stile, who are furthermore themselves psychologists or paedagoges, to create and offer budo-(therapy)-projects - for example in jails for juvenile criminals, in psychiatric child-hospitals or social work areas. This subject I also teach at a university (educational sciences / psychology). On the other hand I work myself as a therapist using Karatedo as a anti-agression-training program.

So my interest is such of a scientist AND karateka.

I am looking foreward to the diskussion,

greetings from Germany
Jörg Wolters

--- Excuse my bad english, please ---


[Edited by dr.j.m.wolters on 02-05-2001 at 08:37 AM]

Joseph Svinth
6th February 2001, 12:51
Glad to be of help. But, before going further, a suggestion. In English, the word "pedogogue," while literally meaning "teacher, schoolmaster," carries a connotation of pedantry. Therefore "instructor" might be a more colloquial usage, conveying Lehrer rather than Leuteschinder. (I know English isn't your first language, so mention this solely to help you avoid giving the wrong idea; your written English is a lot better than my written German!)

Now to the topic. Since you're talking about institutional users, note that like everyone else they sometimes misuse their skills. That is, they use their martial art instruction to beat up prisoners or patients. Examples include http://home.rica.net/rthoma/LEICHTER.HTM

(On all these sites, use the <CTRL-F> browser and the keyword "karate")

Here is a former SWAT team member accused of stealing firearms assaulting a police officer who tried to arrest him: http://www.uhp.state.ut.us/history/Chapter4/DangerinJuabCounty.html

Karate teachers often get into trouble by engaging in sexual acts with minors. For example, here is a Texas high school karate teacher having sex with a 15-year-old student: http://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/opinions/pub/95/95-50811-cv0.htm .

Here the 40-year-old karate school owner initiated sexual activity with a 15-year-old student whome he had known since age 6. http://www.state.il.us/court/appellates/2960249.txt (This fellow got a retrial; I don't know how that turned out.)

Here's a New Jersey taekwondo instructor who left town after being charged with kissing a 5-year old student. http://www.priority2.org/newsoctober2000.htm

Gay students also require mention. The gays themselves are not the problem, it's everyone else you have to worry about.

Here is a description of a bathroom assault on a 14-year old gay by a schoolmate trained in karate: http://www.youth.org/loco/PERSONProject/Alerts/States/Florida/abuse.html .

Here is a Canadian karate teacher who kicks a kid out of his school because gays are bad for business http://ncf.davin.ottawa.on.ca/freeport/social.services/egale/discrimination .

Etc. There are additional examples of such misbehavior in the Bad Budo section of E-budo.

Anyway, the martial art is. What we do with it is up to us. Some people choose bad things. And in my opinion, a college-level instructor needs to spend some time reminding people of that.

[Edited by Joseph Svinth on 02-06-2001 at 06:54 AM]

dr.j.m.wolters
6th February 2001, 14:09
Dear Joe,

first of all thank you for your suggestion/tip to avoid the term "pedagogue" in English language, and to use the term "instructor". For me it sounds a bit too technical, because in German this term means something like just (only)a "technical teacher" (trainer of higher rank), and in Germany "Pädagoge" is someone who studied educational sciences and has (might have) good knowledge of psychology. So a "Budo-Pädagoge" here is "more" than a Budo-Instructor, but I can see the difficulties in different languages and bad translations. That's a pitty and I don't know whow to manage. I don't want to be misunderstood.

Secondly I would like to inform you that really nobody (!) has misused Martial-Arts-techniques until now, since 15 years we are working with Budo-concepts/programs in educational and social work fields or in therapy-programs for juveniles at all. Not even one of those violent criminals, who have had a lot of beatings and "battles" before. This fact is under the scientific controle of german universyties and law-institutions. The opposite is true: Scientyfical proofed is that nearly all of them (few hundreds) became more self-controled, in emotional AND physical aspects. That's what Budo means, isn't it? And this is indeed a great success of new educational (in German: "social-pedagogical") ideas and programs based on Budo for the violent youth. But may be we just have had luck so fare... - but I don't think so. I am very sure of the benefits (for good character) of the real Budo !

But I can see dangerous (mis)processes, too, as you mentioned above. Sexual abuse, misuse of techniques and so on. But in my opinion this is the effect of false Budo (misunderstanding, bad teaching and bad teachers) and a problem (risk) of human being in general.

Once more, thank you very much for your very interesting posts !

Yours
Jörg Wolters



[Edited by dr.j.m.wolters on 02-06-2001 at 08:16 AM]

Joseph Svinth
7th February 2001, 08:06
Note that I only searched English language sites. (My keywords on Google were "assault institutional karate".) So try a similar search in other languages and other stories may appear.

But, assuming for the moment that Germany has been reasonably lucky so far, discovering why would be useful. After all, you want to keep up the good work, and not devolve to the point where the German-language version of E-budo needs to have a Schlechtes Budo forum.

Meanwhile, some bibliographic guidance into English-language academic articles.

http://nutrition.ucdavis.edu/olympics/Sports/mart.htm http://www.interlog.com/~wwc/science1.html
http://www.fas.org/siteindx.html

dr.j.m.wolters
7th February 2001, 10:19
Hi Joe,
what does it mean: " After all, you want to keep up the good work, and not devolve to the point where the German-language version of E-budo needs to have a Schlechtes Budo forum. " ?
I can not really follow the sense of your message, but I guess its neccesary to understand, because it seems to be a kind of a conception...
If you want me to explaine more about the theory (fundamental basics, scientific research methods and prooved results) and the practice of our work "Budo in Pädagogik und Therapy" or about the education of instructors to offer such special programs, please let me know.

And thank you for more interesting internetsides.

Greetings from Germany
Jörg Wolters



[Edited by dr.j.m.wolters on 02-07-2001 at 04:21 AM]

Joseph Svinth
8th February 2001, 12:10
You said that Germany has so far avoided the pitfalls of abuse of martial arts. "Devolving into Bad Budo" therefore means that German budo falls from this state of grace, and also begins having documented cases of teachers molesting students, etc.

Personally, I suspect that what you really have is underreporting.

dr.j.m.wolters
8th February 2001, 15:59
It seems to be a misunderstanding: I did not state that the German avoided misuse of Budo generally or have "good" Budo. I tried to explain that in my ("Institut für Budopädagogik")special programs nobody misused techniques and all of our clients became more peaceful after. I am really sorry, but I still do not understand your postings related to german "bad budo".

What does it mean that what I have is "underreporting" ?
Not even your translator is able to translate this into German or Frensh language to get an idea of its meaning. It seems to be a kind of conception / judgement ? My honest interest in any further discussion can not find satisfaction in this case. Is there another misunderstanding ?

jörg wolters

[Edited by dr.j.m.wolters on 02-09-2001 at 04:51 AM]

Joseph Svinth
9th February 2001, 10:47
Bad budo refers to the intentional misuse of martial arts, or to unusually unethical, self-serving, or corrupt behavior. In my opinion, the use of judo by the Gestapo and Hitler Youth during the 1930s and the use of karate by various skinhead groups today classify as Bad Budo.

Under-reporting is what many people do when reporting their income to the Internal Revenue Service. Sexual assaults, child abuse, and domestic violence are often under-reported.


[Edited by Joseph Svinth on 02-09-2001 at 04:49 AM]

dr.j.m.wolters
9th February 2001, 11:05
Is it right that you do not believe me or my report ?

There is Bad Budo all over the world - but that's not what I am interested in.

My research is to check out the benefits of (good) Budo-Training and -programs in social education and therapy. And here there are very much good examples...

jörg wolters

[Edited by dr.j.m.wolters on 02-09-2001 at 05:12 AM]

MarkF
9th February 2001, 11:25
Dr. Wolters,

Please excuse this interruption between yourself and Mr. Svinth, but I do not think he disbelieves you, he is just interested in all sides of your studies in this area.

I just have a question, but does not have anything to do with the present subject, but have you ever heard or known of the following organization? It has been underdiscussion in other threads, and I thought, since the claim is that it was located in Germany, I would ask someone from there.

It is the "International University of Martial Arts/Germany."

It is said that it did exist and gave doctorates in philosophy (Ph.D.) of "Martial arts and sciences" but that it is no longer extant. It has been only a few years since it closed, I have heard, but no evidence of it ever existing anywhere, particularly Germany, can be found.

Do you have knowledge of it?

Thank you very much for your anticipated answer. It doesn't mean too much, but it has been called into question by some.

dr.j.m.wolters
9th February 2001, 11:55
Dear Mark,
welcome !
I have never heard of that organisation and I do not believe that it ever existed, because especially in Germany it is strictly forbidden to use the term "University" if its not an official institution of the government. No chance. The same with academic grades like "doctor" or "professor" and misuse of those titles is very expensive and costs furthermore prison. Therefore it must have been / might be a very dubios organisation of some false professionals and bad (or non-)Budoka. Nothing worth and totally unknown here.

Would you please give me some more information ?

The only person I know who has an offical "doctor-grade" in Martial Arts (it is said the first and only one worldwide) is Mr. Keith Kernspecht (WingTsun grandmaster 10th degree, head of European Wing Tsun Organisation, Schloss Langenzell / Germany) and was graduated by a university in Bulgaria. But even this title he is not allowed to use in Germany.

Greetings
Jörg Wolters

[Edited by dr.j.m.wolters on 02-09-2001 at 06:12 AM]

MarkF
10th February 2001, 09:53
Thank you very much, Dr. Wolters. This is becoming a sore spot for some, but the thread which mentions this organization is located here: http://204.95.207.136/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=1921&pagenumber=1

If you go through the thread, you will notice, on the first page, about halfway down, Dr. Dan (Dano) Meadows (Kkido -- username) claims a degree from this organization and is attempting to arrange for a similar University here in the US and possibly Canada (I'm not sure if Canada will be involved or not). So far, one person has written to the appropriate people in Germany and they have given the same basic answer as you.

The thread is four pages long and does become rather heated toward the last two pages, but it is interesting to say the least.

Sincerely,

Joseph Svinth
10th February 2001, 11:15
A businessman sells a product while a scientist pursues truth. I was just curious which category your program fell into, that's all.

dr.j.m.wolters
10th February 2001, 13:25
Dear Mark,
as I told you, neither there is any "Martial Arts University" nor "Martial Arts Sciences" in Germany. Therefore there are no official "Docotor"-degrees or any official academic Martial Arts related diplomas, anything worth. The story of "Dr.Dan Meadows" is strange. It reminds me on a problem with a so-called (by his own) german "Professor of Martial Arts", "DoKtor of the Philosophy of the Martial Arts", 50years old guy wearing the same number of DAN-ranks, holding Soke-title (graduated by the Jukokai)of a lot of Karate related stiles, offering a "Budo-University" -web-side and so on. He is a friend of that Sacharnoski. After government involved, he stopped (some) of his dubios activities. You see, we have a lot of bad Budo here as everywhere. Let's make things better...

Dear Joe,
"businessman" and "scientist": my subject is somewhat between, because as a scientist I also offer education programs ("Budo-Pädagogik") and have to live from the money I earn with it. But of course I am not a prostitute....

Greetings
Jörg Wolters

[Edited by dr.j.m.wolters on 02-11-2001 at 05:41 AM]

dr.j.m.wolters
12th February 2001, 22:29
Back to the roots:
Who will let me know his experience with or realization of Budo as Education Programs and Therapy - or his conception about this subject ?
I'm looking foreward to your reply,
regards
Jörg Wolters,
(Martial Arts For Peace Education Programs), Germany


[Edited by dr.j.m.wolters on 02-13-2001 at 01:32 AM]

MarkF
13th February 2001, 06:42
Hi, Jorg,
If you don't mind a suggestion, you might want to ask the question in the "Teacher and Student" forum. Teaching is discussed there most of the time, and with a little more information (as you originally did), teachers of MA, and a few who do teach in public/private schools may get involved.

At least, it couldn't hurt.:)

dr.j.m.wolters
25th February 2001, 00:00
I try it again:

I believe that "true" Karate-Do (good Budo), the ART of the way is how to manage your emotions, emotional disturbances - and aggrressiveness. First you learn how to fight, but afterwards you learn how to controle body and mind. The ART of the way of Karate is to overcome the desires to fight, because win or loose is nothing worth. The only thing that is anything worth is to avoid violence. On my opinion the mastery of martial arts is to become a "Peaceful Warrior", that is someone who is able to fight but does not want to ! Not because he is afraid (in fact there is no reason to be afraid of anything, not even death), but because of his conviction of peace and his (fighting- and human) superyority.

This is especially for violent young man a good lesson, necessary and helpful. No other activity teaches the same.

Sincerely
Jörg Wolters, Germany