The Bo Staff

[Richard Scardina]

Is it improper to use this term "bo staff"? or should one simple say "bo", or "staff"?

Is there supposed to be a regulated length for it to be considered a bo, or a staff?

Are there vast differencse between a jo, bo, staff, cudgel, escrima?

[TonyU]

A bo is a shortened term for what is commonly considered a rokushaku bo or roughly a six foot staff. Roku = 6, shaku = Japanese measure of length closely equaling a foot, bo = staff.
So in my opinion saying bo staff is redundant. In our dojo we utilized the term bo but do explain to the student what it translates to. But then again when do that with all our terminologies.

As far as the others I don' train in them or know enough of them to give you an informed opinion.
I'm sure there are others here that will do a better job of explaining the terms.

[JS3]

As Tony said Bo just means staff, according to this site (http://www.yamasa.cc/members/ocjs/kanjidic.nsf/7b05bc174a2b1b5249256a540000a8b8/9a3b5f22f5dcb2e6492569f5002aacb4!OpenDocument) the kanji for bo meas "rod".

A jo is just a shorter staff usualy around four feet.
you also have:
hanbo 半棒 "half staff" about 3 shaku in length.
Tanbo which is approximately 2 shaku in length.
Different lengths mean different methodology.

There are also specialized bo like iyeku-bo or kai-bo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eku). (note there are many variations on the spelling of iyeku)
Both are types of oars Kai means oar and iyeku is the type of wood used to make the oars so they are usualy just refered to as kai or iyeku.

Staff would be similar to a rokushakubo only useing western terminology and methodology i.e.: Quarterstaff (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarterstaff)

As far as escrima that is more the name of the art than the weapon used.
The weapon used is called an olisi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Arnis_Sticks.JPG) or baston and would be approximately the same length as a tanbo but because of the area in which the art was developed the olisi is usualy made of rattan instead of hardwood.

I hope this helps.

[Prince Loeffler]

Is it improper to use this term "bo staff"? or should one simple say "bo", or "staff"?



Hello Richard

There's no written rules about what is proper or improper ways of saying "Bo Staff". However, it would make sense to practice the language when one practices the Japanese or Okinawan martial arts.

Over the years my students learned to say "Rokushaku-Bo" from the beginning.

Every professions or arts have their own linguistic jargons that puts things in their own perspective.

Hope this helps a bit..

[niten ninja]

Is it improper to use this term "bo staff"? or should one simple say "bo", or "staff"?
It's a rather redundant to say both. It's really more a culture thing that anything else. Saying "Bo Staff" usually indicates a lack of actual knowledge... usually.


Is there supposed to be a regulated length for it to be considered a bo, or a staff?
I've always been told a bo is supposed to be roughly the height of the practitioner. Though in all likelyhood it's probably a generic term for a stick you fight wth.


Are there vast differencse between a jo, bo, staff, cudgel, escrima?
Length pretty much. Although a "staff" and a "cudgel" are pretty generic terms so I can't comment on them. Escrima is completely different.

[Duanew]

[

There are also specialized bo like iyeku-bo or kai-bo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eku). (note there are many variations on the spelling of iyeku)
Both are types of oars Kai means oar and iyeku is the type of wood used to make the oars so they are usualy just refered to as kai or iyeku.
.[/QUOTE]

Eku is another term for the oar and the one I hear most often used.

Everytime I hear Bo Staff it brings back "I've been recruited by two street gangs for my bo staff skills":)

[JS3]

Eku is another term for the oar and the one I hear most often used.

Everytime I hear Bo Staff it brings back "I've been recruited by two street gangs for my bo staff skills":)

From what I have seen and been taught Eku, Ieku, Iyeku all depends on were you are in Okinawa.
Like tonfa, tuifa, tunqua, tonfa is the most widely used.

[NathanHoneycutt]

While not technically correct, unless I'm talking to someone I train with, I always say "bo staff". The reason is that many of my friends know very little of martial arts, and one is a hunter. So the sound "bo" has a very different meaning to them than it does to me. Appending "staff" makes it 100% clear what I'm talking about, although I do feel a little dirty every time I say it.

[Richard Scardina]

Yes. I guess a rose by any other name is still a rose,

or can it be a rose flower, a rose plant, a rose tree, a rose rosa, bara rose, mei rose...

[Lance Gatling]

棒　bō - almost universally known in Japan as a 六尺　roku-shaku staff / rod / cudgel whatever you want to call it = 182cm long, about 6ft. Can be round or hexagonal. The 木 radical gives away the hint it's made of wood.

五尺棒　goshaku bō - a 150cm bō. used in a small number of koryu styles

杖 jō - now typically 四尺二寸一分　4 shaku 2 sun 1 bu, 八分　8bu in diameter, right at 28cm diameter, 128cm long. This is the jō as defined and used by the All Japan Kendo Federation jōdō section (ZenKenRen), unless you're too short to reach end to end, then you can use a shortened version. Some aikido styles use a larger diameter 九分 9bu diameter jō, about 32cm in diameter, which adds a surprisingly greater mass.

Some styles use a slightly shorter '4shaku jō', which allows some interesting moves hard to do with a longer standard jō.

On down, various schools use sticks of a variety of lengths:
半杖
短杖
挫ぎ　
八寸
etc.....

[Nyuck3X]

One of my peeves.

Bo staff - Staff staff
PIN number - personal identification number number
Puppy dog - Canine canine
Kitty cat - feline feline
Gi - ??? Should be keiko-gi or Do-gi

Just because modern culture uses a term in a certian way, doesn't make it correct.

If your friend still confuses Bo with Bow, then call one a quarter staff and the other a bow and arrow.

[Duanew]

One of my peeves.

Bo staff - Staff staff
PIN number - personal identification number number
Puppy dog - Canine canine
Kitty cat - feline feline
Gi - ??? Should be keiko-gi or Do-gi

Just because modern culture uses a term in a certian way, doesn't make it correct.

If your friend still confuses Bo with Bow, then call one a quarter staff and the other a bow and arrow.

Chucks, numchucks, nunchucks ,

[Nyuck3X]

Chucks, numchucks, nunchucks ,

I was thinking that but didn't want to go there...:laugh:

[Lance Gatling]

棒　bō - almost universally known in Japan as a 六尺　roku-shaku staff / rod / cudgel whatever you want to call it = 182cm long, about 6ft. Can be round or hexagonal. The 木 radical gives away the hint it's made of wood.

五尺棒　goshaku bō - a 150cm bō. used in a small number of koryu styles

杖 jō - now typically 四尺二寸一分　4 shaku 2 sun 1 bu, 八分　8bu in diameter, right at 28cm diameter, 128cm long. This is the jō as defined and used by the All Japan Kendo Federation jōdō section (ZenKenRen), unless you're too short to reach end to end, then you can use a shortened version. Some aikido styles use a larger diameter 九分 9bu diameter jō, about 32cm in diameter, which adds a surprisingly greater mass.

Some styles use a slightly shorter '4shaku jō', which allows some interesting moves hard to do with a longer standard jō.

On down, various schools use sticks of a variety of lengths:
半杖
短杖
挫ぎ　
八寸
etc.....

If there's an edit function here I guess it times out.

The jō diameters should read 28mm and 32mm, not 'cm'.

Also, note there were, and are, iron staff 'tetsubō' 鉄棒, usually 6shaku in length. They're great for workouts but if you brain yourself with one of these >7kg (>16lb!) monsters, you're going to notice it, so use at your own peril. The good news is that you know immediately if your technique is offbalance.

I've also seen iron bound types, wooden bō with iron nails in them, etc., but anything that bulges out at the end challenges the ease with which you can manipulate them.

[Brian Owens]

...So the sound "bo" has a very different meaning to them than it does to me. Appending "staff" makes it 100% clear what I'm talking about, although I do feel a little dirty every time I say it.

I suggest "long staff" for bo, and "short staff" for jo to prevent non-budoka from being confused about bo/bow and jo/joe.

No sense sullying yourself needlessly.

[Richard Scardina]

Saying Bo staff:

This type of repetition with acronyms is actually called "RAS syndrome" which in itself is an example as it reads as "redundant acronym syndrome syndrome"

This situation occurs when an acronym is so common that people forget what it actually stands for, and instead treat it as a noun. It is especially common when the acronym comes from another language and is taken up as a noun to begin with.

"Bo staff" has the same issue as tautological place names. A tautological place name is a name where the two words are synonyms. One example is Mississippi River...where Mississippi MEANS big river....so translated it is "big river river".

[wreddock]

Hawaii is the big Island.

[paul browne]

I am painfully aware I'm straying into someone elses playground here but, since the purpose of language is to accurately communicate information, if saying 'Bo Staff' ensures that no one turns up with a stringed stick and a quiver full of arrows does it really do any harm. Obviously once everyone is singing from the same sheet it would become redundant.
Must be really hard in the mixed kobudo/kyudo classes though, especially on nights you do paired practice:)

Paul

[Brian Owens]

Saying Bo staff:

This type of repetition with acronyms is actually called "RAS syndrome" which in itself is an example as it reads as "redundant acronym syndrome syndrome"

Except that neither bo nor staff are acronyms; they are synonyms of each other, but not acronyms. (I wonder if they treat RAS Syndrome in the ER Room at the hospital.)


...if saying 'Bo Staff' ensures that no one turns up with a stringed stick and a quiver full of arrows does it really do any harm.

Saying just "staff" would ensure that no one shows up with a bow. Saying "bo staff" is redundant and redundant. Not to mention redundant.

[paul browne]

Saying just "staff" would ensure that no one shows up with a bow.

Yep,
That works too!!:)

Or do what we do, sticka rattle on the end and call it a shakujo, problem solved:)

Paul

[Lance Gatling]

just out of curiosity, why is this in 'Gendai Budo'?

Also, there is a thread on the Judo Forum on 'Kodokan bojutsu'.
http://judoforum.com/index.php?showtopic=41260&st=0&p=519556&#entry519556

But they're talking about jo, I don't get it.

[Brian Owens]

...there is a thread on the Judo Forum on 'Kodokan bojutsu'. ...But they're talking about jo, I don't get it.

It's not totally unheard of to use bojutsu as a catchall for stick fighting in general. I know of a Japanese Aikido instructor, for example, who calls the jo waza they practice "bojutsu."

[Richard Scardina]

Does this mean that practitioners not in any direct tutelage or instruction in Japan, can use this term? Simply, wouldn't staff do. I have seen people of different cultures project a manner of slight offense, per they trying to correct, whenever something is improper when it pertains to their language or culture. Afterall, when something is butchered even within our own terms or culture-language (whatever you may have), don't we all find it strange and uncorrect? :look: