Re-frame Your Knife Defense

[Hissho]

Apparently this is video from a murder with a knife on the Madrid Metro some 2 years ago, video just being released. Skinhead stabs left wing supporter, killing him, and later stabs another who engages him. Any Spanish members have any further?

Note the stance, note the proximity (common in daily life), and note the lack of commonality with typical "martial arts" knife defense training (squared off, aware of blade, able to take stance, center and focus on knife attack).

Food for thought:

http://www.elpais.com/videos/espana/Huida/grabacion/muerte/video/largo/elpvid/20090510elpepunac_2/Ves/

[Cufaol]

Unfortunately, this is exactly what you can expect from a knife attack. If the attacker knows what he is doing he'll keep the blade concealed until the last possible moment, i.e. when it is to late to do anything about it. This video is one of the reasons why I'm always rather sceptical toward knife defense techniques. When I suspect someone in my proximity is about to use a bladed weapon I try to get the hell out. 'Nike'-defense ftw.

cheers,

[yoj]

The kind of knife defences typically practised are 'vaguely' effective against a threat, the kind of situation where the wielder is waving it around obviously as a power trip thing. It's no different to unarmed in some ways, people that are attacked where the bad guy is only interested in hitting the other guy dont always start with all the bravado and posturing, just amble past and 'wham', the difference being that a knife is a much higher risk etc.

As per the norm, the danger is in being too close to have the reaction time needed to do something useful, however, you simply can't keep 3 feet from everyone all the time, which is why he was so successful in this instance.

Interviews from muggers and such bears this out, they dont want to get into extended confrontations, they want something effective and fast, and that means close range.

[R Erman]

I would highly recommend the dog brothers' Die Less Often DVD's if you are looking for good solid knife defense.

Tony Blauer has a good edged weapons series out too, but I prefer the dog-catcher. Makes so much sense.

Still, nothing's fail proof. edged weapons attacks are scary, scary business.

Thanks for posting this Kit

[Robc]

Great video. Not much you can do there. It's interesting that no one yelled "knife!" ("cuchillo!") as it was obvious several passengers saw it before the first attack. I wonder how long he would have been free to terrorize the subway had he been in Tel Aviv or San Antonio.

Also, is it sociologically relevant that he throws like a girl? I'm only half kidding.

[Hissho]

As it is, the knifer is probably getting at least one free shot. Defense wise, after awareness has failed, you will have to dig yourself out of a pretty deep hole, but it has been done before.

Jerry Wetzel's Red Zone material is about the best I have seen re: knife defense. There is also Tanswell's STAB.

The crucial point is to control/smother the weapon. That may mean controlling the weapon itself or the arm/hand to the extent that he cannot twist his wrist or do something else to bring it to effective use (the edge with a blade, the muzzle with a gun).

Fighting the man comes second. The "principle based" idea of "attack the man and you attack the weapon" simply does not play out even in force on force training, let alone real life. If you choose to place control of the weapon as a second priority, do so at your peril.

Control of the weapon returns us to the third option - exercise your own weapons option or escape at an angle from which he cannot re-engage. Don't break range in front of his hands/weapons.


In summary:

Control/smother the weapon, forestalling or stopping its ability to be used to harm you.

You are now free to visit as much damage upon him as possible without being continually hit with the weapon in the process. Don't give up control of the weapon!

Deploy your own weapon (note: while STILL controlling his weapon) or gain an angle to escape.

[tanis]

Problem with these types of attack if you dont see it your done.If your in a crowd that can attrach this kind of thing you should beware and be watchful as a previous poster said unless you have eyes in the back of your head

[Josh Young]

Pretty typical encounter for a knife.

Nothing the assailant can do.

Police are frequently trained in accordance with the observation that a man with a knife can bridge 20 feet and give them a fatal injury before they typically can draw and fire their weapon.

A knife is great against an unarmed attacker, because there is so little the aggressor can do against it. Knives are worthless against knives as far as defense, it will just end like so many sword duels: two dead men.