PDA

View Full Version : Shiai Kata Rules



Prince Loeffler
7th June 2009, 17:57
Can anyone help a mathematically impaired karate-ka understand the reasoning or logic behind this particular rule in Shiai Kata:


The scoring range will be from 5.0 to 7.0, with 6.0 being average. Incomplete kata will be given 5.0. With five judges, the highest and lowest scores will be eliminated, total the remaining 3.


Why not just tally the whole thing see who's got the highest points. Yes, I have never been a refeeree and thus the reason for this posting.

Oh, and I hate math like veggies on my plate...:D:D

Victor Smith
7th June 2009, 18:54
The rational behind dropping the highest and lowest scoring judge is to eliminate positive and/or negative favortisim.

If all 5 scores are allowed a judge could give a 10 and spike the total, or a judge could give a 1 to drop someone's total score.

In that case no one judge can influence the result signifantly.

There is no set of rules which can enforce fairness, the primarly rule of the competitor must always remain, if I have five fools judging me and they give me first place, what does that mean?

Prince Loeffler
7th June 2009, 20:38
The rational behind dropping the highest and lowest scoring judge is to eliminate positive and/or negative favortisim.

If all 5 scores are allowed a judge could give a 10 and spike the total, or a judge could give a 1 to drop someone's total score.

In that case no one judge can influence the result signifantly.

There is no set of rules which can enforce fairness, the primarly rule of the competitor must always remain, if I have five fools judging me and they give me first place, what does that mean?

Thanks Smith San for the logical clarification. It still does not make sense but, I guess it justifies the point.

TonyU
7th June 2009, 21:35
Also if a tie happens then you add the lowest point to break the tie. If still a tie then you can add the highest point value. Usually it doesn't get that far, though.

Victor Smith
11th June 2009, 02:40
Does dropping the high and low scores make sense, it depends on where you're looking from.

Those of us involved in the tournament days a long time ago saw the true nature of judging where there are really no rules. Judges (instructors) did score for favorites and if their own student was in the division and towards the end of the competition, a higher score (when total scores were involved) could cement a win.

As most tournaments had to work to find anyone to judge, this approach became common to try and level the playing field. In reality there is first place and everyone else who isn't first place. The scoring has never been truly indicative of where everyone ranks in ability. (Perhaps the wushu rules and standardization will provide a fairer answer ???).

Then adopting standardized kata was another answer.

A continual search to find a better answer.

Of course the likely fairest answer is maybe a dozen judges (akin to the olympic diving, ice skating, gymnastics judges), and total all scores, the larger number making any one judges opinion less influenced.

I left the competitative arena behind and my students don't focus on that aspect of the arts, simply because it always ends up too flaky. The modern traditional karate-ka, highly skilled performers who in turn slow the kata for dramatic effect, rending the kata application potential moot, one example.

Sports are ever changing fields of regulations.

Harlan
11th June 2009, 13:48
Wouldn't it just be simpler to modify the rules that a judge cannot submit a score for their own students/sit out, and using an average (total pts/# eligible judges submitting points) vs. pt total?

Joseph Svinth
12th June 2009, 01:54
At national levels, no. The French did not trust the Japanese, and the Japanese did not trust the French.

GaryWado
11th July 2009, 12:30
Of course, under WKF regs now, competitors are drawn against one and other, and a red/blue flag system is used by the judges to indicate which competitor was the best and therefore goes through to the next round.

Gary Needham