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KTT
7th February 2001, 08:35
Dear E-Budo Members,

What is the relationship between the founders and what are the technical similarities / differences between Araki ryu, Shin Araki ryu, Araki Shin ryu http://www.jujutsu.com/jujutsu/htm/Frame19.htm and Yagyu Shingan ryu Araki Do (International Hoplology Society Guide to Classical Martial Ryu of Japan - No. 1, page 9)?

Thank you very much.

Sincerely,

Kevin T. Tanemura

Aaron Fields
7th February 2001, 22:24
Kevin Tanemura,

The best answer you will get to this question is to contact Ellis Amdur. He posts on e-budo and can be reached via his e-mail. Ellis has a teaching liscense in Araki-ryu and is therefore the best person to help you with what you are looking for.

Ellis Amdur
8th February 2001, 02:28
Araki Ryu has never had a "soke" system - instead, it was expected that when receiving a menkyo, one would be licensed to teach as one saw fit. Therefore, the ryu permutated from the second generation. Almost all lines of Araki Ryu emanate from the 2nd generation teacher Mori Kasumi, and generally speaking, those separate lines maintained the same central set of grappling techniques. Each, however, added other techniques, particularly weapon forms, as they saw fit.

When an instructor had deviated to such an extent that he believed that he had fundamentally taken a different road, he would form a new ryu. Those who believed that they had retained enough of the essence of the core ryu would likely include Araki in their name. Thus, there were many lines of Araki Shin ( "new") Ryu, Araki To ("sword") Ryu, for two examples. Others, who basically created something new, had such names as Kasumi Shin Ryu, Seishin Ryu, Takenouchi San To Ryu, etc.

Currently, there are two factions of Araki Ryu located in the Ise-Zaki area of Japan - sons of teachers in the same line, they chose to each maintain their own dojo. The faction I belong to, a third, is syncretic, the product of three separate lines of Araki Ryu and two lines of Araki Shin Ryu. It has a primary lineal relationship to the Ise-Zaki line(s), but should be considered fundamentally apart, and quite different in many aspects from the previous two.

In addition, there is a line of Mikkami Araki Ryu ("Three diety Araki Ryu") which is a very limited jujutsu school, practiced for some generations in a single mountain village; a school called Araki Ryu Gunyo Kogusoku in the Saitama area, which focuses primarily on iai and spear, with some other weapons, and other than sharing a founder, bears no relationship to the mainline; and finally, an Araki Ryu iaido, which also claims Araki Mujinsai as the founder, but otherwise, again, is unrelated.

I have never heard of Shin Araki Ryu. (Mikkami Araki Ryu can also be read San Shin Araki Ryu). "yagyu shingan ryu, araki do" is an odd name in the extreme. The only thing I can imagine is that it refers to the line of Yagyu Shingan Ryu that claims descent from Araki Mataemon, a prominent Shinkage Ryu swordsman, of no relation to the Araki Ryu.



Best

Ellis Amdur

Mrose
12th July 2005, 14:33
Last weekend I attended a Kobudo embukai in Nakano, Tokyo, where I am a rather new member of the Tokyo Yagyu kai. I saw many interesting schools demonstrate. I wish I didn't have to worry about that pesky "work so I can pay the rent" thing so that I could learn more.
One of the schools that stood out to me was the Araki Ryu, of which I saw two groups demonstrate. In one of the demonstrations they showed jujutsu waza. During this, something that looked like a small cube with a larger flat tray on top was placed between the shidachi and uchidachi. Can anyone tell me what this is? Is this to show an attack in doors while serving tea perhaps? Any information is appreciated. Thanks.

Ellis Amdur
12th July 2005, 15:02
The object is called a sampo - and it is an ordinary (archaic) serving tray. You will usually see them in Shinto shrines, stacked with tangerines or mochi, in front of the altar. There are three kata in this set, which is the very first thing one learns in the Araki-ryu. The set is called sankyoku, which means "Three themes." The individual is offered the tray, which properly should have a cup on it - in theory containing sake - and at the moment they reach for it, they are attacked. These kata obviously show a certain attitude towards how one should deal with one's enemies, and it is also significant that they is the first thing taught.

Best

Mrose
12th July 2005, 15:25
Mr. Amdur,
Thank you for your reply. Like I said, I was quite impressed with what I saw of Araki Ryu. If you would indulge my curiosity one more time, there was also a weapon that consisted of a pole about the same length as a sword and had a chain and ball at the end. What is the name of this weapon? Thank you again.

Sincerly,

Finny
12th July 2005, 17:42
there was also a weapon that consisted of a pole about the same length as a sword and had a chain and ball at the end. What is the name of this weapon?

I'm not Mr. Amdur, but this weapon is called the chigiriki.

There is a thorough discussion of it in Mr Amdur's book 'Old School'.
Here is a pic of an Araki Ryu chigiriki technique:

http://www.koryu.com/images/kjaraki.jpg

There were a bunch of pics of Mr. Amdur and a student of his performing sankyoku on koryu.com - but they seem to have been removed.

Anyways - here are some more interesting koryu pics:

http://ejmas.com/tin/meijitaikai/Meijitaikai.html

http://www.koryu.com/photos/reports.html

paul browne
13th July 2005, 16:34
Mr. Amdur
I have taken great pleasure in reading the articles you have written both in Aikido journal and the various books edited by Diane Skoss.
I was interested in what you said regarding the kata mentioned above. Are these techniques some sort of Torite, arresting technique or are they ambushes designed to send an enemy to his maker? I am interested both from a martial and practical way.
The art I practise, Shorinji Kempo, contains a great many pre-emptive locking and throwing techniques but the strategy for 'acquiring' the opponents limb is rarely covered. Likewise I am employed in law enforcement work where techniques are taught but the 'lure' is not given any emphasis. Is that what is happening in these kata's, are the items props to entrap the opponent?
is one of these the techniques illustrated in Donn Dreagers book Classical Budo? any practical advice you feel able to give on adapting practice to cover these strategies would be appreciated.
Many thanks
Paul Browne

fifthchamber
14th July 2005, 01:14
Hi Paul,
As I remember there was a large section of Mr. Amdur's "Old School" book devoted to talking about the possible origins and ideas behind the kata you saw...I would read that. It had a lot of good stuff on the art and on the other arts that were there on Sunday..
By the way Matt..We were all there too...You should have yelled for us! Down at the front...Taking pictures!
Regards..

Ellis Amdur
14th July 2005, 01:54
Mr. Brown -

They are three things. 1) torite for conceivably taking control of someone 2) Torite for taking someone's life 3) a generalized teaching of a mindset. They are the techniques photographed in Draeger's book - I've got a couple of photos in Old School as well. As for the "lure," the real question here could be subsumed in kamae. Imagine you are the "pizza delivery man" in a hostage situation - how would you present yourself to the hostage taker so that he takes the pizza, putting him in your reach, or in the gunsite of your team member? The lure, if you will, is to become exactly what is necessary so that the person opens the door (this last word, of course, is both metaphor and literal).

Best

Ellis Amdur

paul browne
14th July 2005, 20:10
Mr. Amdur,
Thank you (and fifthchamber) for taking the time to reply.
I will try and locate a copy of 'Old School' since I've found your accounts of training in Araki ryu amoung the most interesting in the Koryu books.
If I am unable to locate it through normal book shops or Amazon are you able to recomend how I can get a copy (in the UK)
Incidently do you ever teach in the UK. I have no illusions about learning a koryu by 'distance learning' but the oportunity to at least see the genuine article would be appreciated.
Thank you
Paul Browne
(I'm happier being called Paul, only defence counsel usually call me Mr. Browne generally before attempting to ritually humiliate me before the jury)

Trevor Johnson
14th July 2005, 21:02
The place I bought mine is on www.koryu.com. They've also got a lot of articles you might find very interesting.

Ellis Amdur
14th July 2005, 23:01
Paul -

koryu books definitely has copies, as well as my own website (www.ellisamdur.com). I did not market the book through normal channels, so it's not available on either Amazon or like minded sites, or in bookstores.

I've occasionally taught in GB, but not for a few years. I may be in Ireland within the next 6 months or so.

Best

Charlie Kondek
15th July 2005, 17:22
I'm sorry, Ellis, can you clear up one thing for me? Who wins the exchange in the tee/sake-tray presentation, the presenter or the presentee? You're saying the presenter is the "pizza man" who is attacking his enemy first through a gesture of etiquette, and that the pizza man then eliminates/deals with his unuspecting (or duped) enemy?

Ellis Amdur
15th July 2005, 18:40
Charlie -

Exactly. "Torite" means "taking hand." In the oldest grappling systems, the techniques were NOT counters to attacks. They WERE the attacks. One offers a drink, gets the enemy off his guard and finishes him.

History lesson: Araki-ryu is referred to as torite-kogusoku.

Torite can be considered close combat methods to take prisoner or kill an opponent. In the Araki-ryu, these include the sankyoku, a set of eight techniques for a standing person to finish off one on their knees and five for a standing person to finish off another standing person. (As in sneak up or run up or slip behind him, grab him by the collar, slam him down and stomp on his head).

Kogusoku: Takenouchi-ryu uses the term somewhat differently, I believe, as it refers, for them, both to techniques AND the dagger they use. Generically, however, kogusoku means "light armor," and refers to close combat/grappling with a blade.

In Araki-ryu, this includes the following: "hitoshichi" (hostage/prisoner taking) a set where one is attacked with a dagger on the ground, and "counters." (I put that in quotes, because the counter is the best bad option one has in the circumstances, not a guaranteed winning tehcnique.) In other words, it's contingency planning.

Then there is a set of sword drawing "bakken" (fast sword), which again, can be considered contingency planning - how to deploy your side-arm, so to speak, from the ground, as well as instruction in weapon-handling. One is on one's knees and ball-of-foot, not seiza, but in some kata, one rises from the ground to upright.

Then there is a set of grappling/attack, short sword against long sword, "Rogu-no-dan" (heavy armor) with half the techniques "won" by the short sword and half by the long. Here, we are dealing with the contingency of what happens when you are body-to-body on the ground, and didn't have time to get your weapon out and simply cut the other. It's an "isolation" of what may very likely happen in a melee.

Then there is a set called "ho-ben no dan," which literally means, "techniques of expediency," including what one should (try to) do if on one's back and the other is stabbing downward. Finally, there is a set called "momiji" (Maple leaf) which is --- gokui - - -and it aint none of your business.

All this by way of saying that what is generally considered jujutsu is techniques in which the weaker-or-attacked person wins. Counters.
These are derived from these older contingency kata, and were expanded and elaborated. From the basic principals of evading a blade, latching on and trying to disarm or damage the enemy comes the principal of pliancy/suppleness - going all the way up to judo or aikijutsu in which, at the slightest exertion of unbalanced force, the practitioner takes the advantage.

Final note: Other lines of Araki-ryu which were developed/innovated in mid-Edo were called jujutsu, and they have a lot of counter techniques, throws, etc. The two factions which are most active in the Ise-Zaki area of Japan are called Araki-ryu kempo, using the character for "fist method." This is, in fact, a name change from torite-kogusoku which was done sometime in the late 1800's or early 1900's. Best guess I have is that it was in a period of interest in Chinese martial texts and/or the early entry of karate in Japan. No change in method or new techniques accompanied this, just a change of name, which I think was merely "marketing," kempo sounding much more hip than torite-kogusoku. And contrary to any claims in program notes of these factions (I've read a few), there is absolutely no relationship between Araki-ryu and methods of Chinese boxing.


Best

Charlie Kondek
15th July 2005, 20:54
Charlie -
Finally, there is a set called "momiji" (Maple leaf) which is --- gokui - - -and it aint none of your business.

Thank you. :)

And your note on kempo is very interesting, thanks!

Scott Irey
16th July 2005, 01:50
Hello Ellis,

I noticed you didn't mention the set of waza were the perfectly chilled can of Pepsi is placed in front of an enemies sliding glass door. I imagine this is probably similar to the MJER techniques in which one is seated on a Swedish therapy ball while drawing the sword... we don't explain them out of school... :D

Trevor Johnson
17th July 2005, 22:06
Hello Ellis,

I noticed you didn't mention the set of waza were the perfectly chilled can of Pepsi is placed in front of an enemies sliding glass door. I imagine this is probably similar to the MJER techniques in which one is seated on a Swedish therapy ball while drawing the sword... we don't explain them out of school... :D

Actually, what you're using the can of pepsi for is to lubricate the sliding door so you can slip through silently. If you read one of Dave Lowry's books (think it's Autumn Moon, but can't remember), peeing on the runners was a ninjutsu technique as well as a way to slip into your girlfriend's house at night without the parents finding out about it. (Though if I were a Japanese dad and my doorstep smelled like pee, I'd certainly start being concerned about my daughter's dating status...)

pgsmith
18th July 2005, 18:50
I imagine this is probably similar to the MJER techniques in which one is seated on a Swedish therapy ball while drawing the sword... we don't explain them out of school...
Hey Scott!
And I just want to thank you for not explaining. I don't think I want to know why you're sitting there! :rolleyes:

Trevor Johnson
18th July 2005, 19:11
Hello Ellis,

I noticed you didn't mention the set of waza were the perfectly chilled can of Pepsi is placed in front of an enemies sliding glass door. I imagine this is probably similar to the MJER techniques in which one is seated on a Swedish therapy ball while drawing the sword... we don't explain them out of school... :D
You mean the blue udders? I thought you were trying to get blueberry milk by scaring the poor things...