philosophy 101

[Indar]

Many of us within WSKO are asking for instruction in kongo zen; but I would suggest that it's up to us to demonstrate that we are ready for some more advanced tuition.

"Admidst the extreme circumstances that followed defeat in war, Kaiso came to the conviction that "everything depends on the quality of the person"".

(Kongo Zen Tokuhon)



Actually I agree with John. Kaiso argued that everything depends on the quality of the person. Well, up to a point....... Individual malfescience is NOT an adequate explanation for the kind of systemic calamity which has emerged in the world financial system.

The problems are really in the institutional and structural incentives which drive individual behaviour.

(WSKO branch master)

Two views on a fundamental principle of SK: everything depends on the individual: or it doesn't, since we are driven by forces (institutional and structural incentives) that are outside our control.

compare and contrast. :)

(with apologies to Tony for using him as a catalyst; I don't (personally) think that anyone teaching Shorinji Kempo should have to follow the party line, but I do think that they should be prepared to defend their views).

[Rob Gassin]

I don't (personally) think that anyone teaching Shorinji Kempo should have to follow the party line, but I do think that they should be prepared to defend their views).

I don't think that anyone teaching Shorinji Kempo should have to follow the party line, or be prepared to defend their views ..... especially on a public forum. However, I do think that someone in that position should consider the possible consequences of their action before posting.

[Panu Suominen]

Two views on a fundamental principle of SK: everything depends on the individual: or it doesn't, since we are driven by forces (institutional and structural incentives) that are outside our control.

Kongo Zen teaches it everything depends on quality of person (considering those things that are humanly controllable). It does not mean that everybody has to believe in it. Personally I think that current financial crisis is partially created by creed of people. However economy contains natural waves which are like tides. There is quite a little one can do about it you only have to cope with it. The quality of person is important in the time of crisis not so much in avoiding them because crisis will always emerge.

And what comes to the defending ones views in internet forum I think it is quite pointless. Currently I am doing this because it helps me keep my sanity at work. When things ease up I will probably be quiet. ;)

[JL.]

Gassho!

I'm with Kaiso on this one (always wanted to write that ^^). There are banks who did not fall for the greed trap and did not trade in highly risky, dubious financial products. So there was a choice for the individual persons in charge.
Of course there are strong incentives and necessities to 'go with the flow', but there's always choice!

In fact Kaiso's dictum about the importance of people is one of the two strongest impacts Shorinjikempo philosophy has had on my personal belief system.

Kesshu,
______ Jan.

[Ewok]

Two views on a fundamental principle of SK: everything depends on the individual: or it doesn't, since we are driven by forces (institutional and structural incentives) that are outside our control.

Institutional and structural incentives, systems and processes which were created by people. You can't escape that fact.

Its not like you are saying it was hormones, or the phases of the moon that was driving these people, it was greed - people saw a way to cheat the system and they took it. Doesn't matter how they try and justify the means.

[JL.]

Gassho!


Its not like you are saying it was hormones, or the phases of the moon that was driving these people, it was greed - people saw a way to cheat the system and they took it.Well, it's not quite that simple. Some saw that the way they were going was wrong – 25% return for their capital as a stated goal (Deutsche Bank CEO Ackermann, before and after the meltdown!) – but felt that if they didn't join in they would be left behind, because the investors would go to whoever promised them the most. Not entirely unreasonable. But as I said, others managed to stay out of it, so it was possible.

Kesshu,
______ Jan.

[Ewok]

Some saw that the way they were going was wrong... but felt that if they didn't join in they would be left behind

So they knew it was wrong, but did it anyway, eventually costing their clients money?

Isn't that a textbook example?

[Indar]

Thanks for the replies; but I didn't communicate clearly the reason for the post:

Does a Shorinji Kempo branch master have to believe/agree 100% with Kongo Zen?

A fundamental question, and intended to explore the reasons why WSKO have separated Shorinji Kempo and Kongo Zen.

Apologies again to Tony; I have quoted from his previous post for the following reasons:

1. I know him personally and believe him to be a very competent SK instructor.

2. If he is not happy with being used as an example I'm sure that he will say so.

3. His post illustrates the example very well.

I feel that the quote "Kaiso was right, up to a point..." etc. is honest and reasonable. I don't think that SK should be taught by robots or hypocrites. I also feel that many SK instructors don't completely subscribe to Kaiso's teachings.

This might explain why WSKO feel that Shorinji Kempo and Kongo Zen should be taught separately.

[Rob Gassin]

I also feel that many SK instructors don't completely subscribe to Kaiso's teachings.

This might explain why WSKO feel that Shorinji Kempo and Kongo Zen should be taught separately.

Common Indar, do you really think you have to completely subscribe to a set of ideas to teach them.

Do you thing that that all Catholic priests believe condoms should not be used or that the Dalia Lama's disciples all subscribe to his teachings on sex?

To think as an individual and form one's own set of values is human. If your explanation was right, then no-one would teach Kongo Zen in Japan either.

[Panu Suominen]

This might explain why WSKO feel that Shorinji Kempo and Kongo Zen should be taught separately.
I quoted the reason WSKO has anounced for the separation. I don't think they have hidden agenda. If they would think the problem is that understanding is poor then they would teach us more.

For what I have read about Kongo Zen (and Shorinji Kempo) its basic idea is not to believe what you are told but to think things through and make your own mind. You are not required to agree on everything. It is like Shorinji Kempo techniques, we have many right ways to do them. But I think when one teaches he should not state his own opinions as teachings of Shorinji Kempo or Kongo zen nor claim teachings of others as his own.

[Indar]

"The person, the person, the person. Everything depends on the quality of the person."

Our founder, So Doshin, saw that "given that everything is conducted by people, then there is no other way to achieving real peace than to make as many individuals as possible with strong senses of charity, courage, and justice,"

http://www.shorinjikempo.or.jp/wsko/kaiso/index.html

All change begins with a change of mind by one individual....

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/leading-articles/leading-article-it-is-enough-that-obama-has-given-us-hope-for-the-future-1800590.html

[JL.]

Gassho!

Excellent article!
I really fail to understand how people think he could be undeserving. That's an injust and frankly ingrateful attitude, IMHO.

Kesshu,
______ Jan.

[Indar]

A suppressed report which details how an oil company dumped toxic waste in Africa that may cause serious burns has been released following a parliamentary row over freedom of speech.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/6350262/Secret-Trafigura-report-said-likely-cause-of-illness-was-release-of-toxic-gas-from-dumped-waste.html

This is what I request from everyone. Many people think, "just a minute" when it's time to do something. However, I don't. When I think it I do it, and I do it as hard as I can without worrying about tomorrow.

http://www.shorinjikempo.or.jp/wsko/kaiso/29.html