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Sasakii
21st June 2000, 15:02
Hello,

They say that there is no such thing as a stupid question, so here goes. :D

I have been wondering if any other Ryu, Koryu or Gendai, uses this type of strike. In my practice of Katori Shinto Ryu, it seems that this is "the" strike that sets Katori Shinto Ryu apart. I mean that there are other things such as the Kaiten Chiburi in the Iai-jutsu waza, etc. I was just curious as to what you all have to say.

Thanks

John Lindsey
21st June 2000, 17:14
Hi and welcome to e-budo!

Can you tell us a little more about this strike? I am sure many of our members are not sure exactly what it is...

Joanne Miller
21st June 2000, 17:22
Originally posted by Sasakii

In my practice of Katori Shinto Ryu, it seems that this is "the" strike that sets Katori Shinto Ryu apart. I mean that there are other things such as the Kaiten Chiburi in the Iai-jutsu waza, etc. I was just curious as to what you all have to say.


I am certainly no authority to comment on this but here goes.. I think there is a strike which looks somewhat (not sure..) similar to the Maki-uchi of Katori Shinto Ryu which can be seen in some of the sword work of Tatsumi Ryu. ( Which like Katori Shinto Ryu is located in Chiba prefecture as well) I *think* It's called Kiri Otoshi/Kowa Uchi (Strength cut). There's a junior member (1-1 1/2 yr?)of Tatsumi Ryu who is currently living & working in Japan who post occasionly here in E-budo. Maybe he would like to comment on it ? :)

As for the Chiburi , from what I have observed ( and it's not much ;) ) Katori Shinto Ryu is not the only ryuha which does it that way. Takenouchi Ryu as well as some other less-famous ryuha does it.

Cheers

Joanne Miller
21st June 2000, 17:40
Originally posted by John Lindsey
Can you tell us a little more about this strike? I am sure many of our members are not sure exactly what it is...


I really shouldn't be answering this given that there are couple of Shinbukan members & Yushinkan( & affliated )members on E-budo who are more in a position to answer this. Sincerely apologies as an "outsider" jumping on this topic :)


From what I have seen and from what I am told in conversations the Maki-Uchi (Twist-cut) is a cut directed to the makko (forehead) and it is similar to the vertical kiri-otoshi cut to the forehead. Except that the sword is brought over and canted over the left arm & rested on the forearm instead of bringing it directly up straight to the forehead as in convectional kiro otoshi strikes. It's suppose to be a more powerful cut and I heard it was developed because the Kabuto caused obstruction and prevented effective kiri otoshi cuts being done.

Cheers,

Earl Hartman
21st June 2000, 18:38
If what Joanne is saying is true, it sounds as though the maki-uchi strike is somewhat similar to what is called in modern kendo "katsugi uchi". In katsugi uchi, the sword is not brought straight up over the head, but is brought back over the (usually, but not always, the left) shoulder (thus katsugi, from the verb "katsugu", "to carry on the shoulder"). This strike, though not that common, is often used from close quarters when the ma-ai does not permit a straight overhead strike.

Earl

Sasakii
21st June 2000, 20:30
Joanne has got the description down. :) Sorry Mr. Lindsey, I should have been more descriptive. :o

It just makes me wonder if, (as a lot of people more qualified than me have said), most of the major Koryu have roots in KSR, why we do not see a lot more of this type of cut.

gmellis
22nd June 2000, 01:31
From what I have seen and from what I am told in conversations the Maki-Uchi (Twist-cut) is a cut directed to the makko (forehead) and it is similar to the vertical kiri-otoshi cut to the forehead. Except that the sword is brought over and canted over the left arm & rested on the forearm instead of bringing it directly up straight to the forehead as in convectional kiro otoshi strikes. It's suppose to be a more powerful cut and I heard it was developed because the Kabuto caused obstruction and prevented effective kiri otoshi cuts being done.

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Very well put. that is about as good a verbal description of the cut that i have yet to hear. as to the why, the cut is not used to avoid the kabuto, as much as it is to avoid the wakidate (i believe it's called; the metal accoutrements sticking outward and upward from the front of the helm) and the maedate (an additional accessory that juts upward front the front of the helm). a reqular jodan can be performed with a regualar kabuto, but with these accoutrements on the helm, makiuchi is the next best thing, and often better.

Greg Ellis