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Prince Loeffler
4th June 2010, 12:50
Does any have some small info regarding this photo. I am just curious. Thanks in advance.

Josh Reyer
4th June 2010, 15:05
Hard to tell from just that, but it may be one of the Niou (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nio).

Prince Loeffler
4th June 2010, 15:26
Thanks Josh ! At least I know now where to start.

ZealUK
4th June 2010, 23:52
Actually I don't think it's a Niou, but rather one of the Shitenou (四天王 ー four heavenly kings). Could be Bishamonten (毘沙門天)

Kendoguy9
5th June 2010, 03:34
I'm leaning towards one of the 4 Heavenly Kings as well. When I went to the Smithsonian last year my girlfriend snapped photos of two of them they had on display. I hope the photos come across in this post.

Tripitaka of AA
5th June 2010, 15:53
Hey, call me an expert! (Meaning: I knew nothing about this subject until yesterday but now I've spent an hour on Wiki and Google), but this looks to be Buddhist, not Shinto.

So, from early suggestions, it appears to be either a Nio, which are guardians often found at the entrance to a temple (one on each side), or possibly the god of warriors Bishamonten (also known as Tamonten (多聞天)) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaisravana), who is one of the Four Heavenly Kings.

The statues of Bishamonten often show him holding a pagoda in one hand and a lance in the other. Going from the many images on Google images, I'd have to assume that the most well-known version of Bishamonten is this one at Todaiji.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/Todaiji13s4592.jpg/399px-Todaiji13s4592.jpg

Note how the statue in the OP is wearing armour. Could that right hand be holding something? Maybe it fell off. I wonder how big it is in reality. Is it carved from wood, or is it stone? I notice that ALL the images of the statue in Todaiji are very similar - they are all natural light and from ground level - as this is a temple location and you can't go bringing in lights or a step-ladder to improve the angle. The OP picture is lit, with a selected background. Does that mean it is small enough to carry around? But none of the images on the net match that one.. so perhaps it is not a well-known example?!

Mind you, THIS one is easy to carry around too, but probably not seen in public too often...
http://www.counterfeitchic.com/Images/converse%20copy%20of%20bloodrose%20tattoo-4.jpg

Tom Karazozis
6th June 2010, 15:28
Looks alot like Komokuten (広目天) with the scroll missing in his hand. Although, the face looks more like Zochoten (增長天). The statue doesn't appear to be THAT old though...

Tripitaka of AA
6th June 2010, 17:37
Komokuten, from here (http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/koumokuten.html):
http://www.onmarkproductions.com/assets/images/komokuten-todaiji-koyasan-early-kamakura-era-V10-nihonnobutsuzou-TN.jpg

Tripitaka of AA
6th June 2010, 17:39
A-ha! Found this other angle of the OP picture, on a photography site (http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://ringo-rs.blog.so-net.ne.jp/blog/_images/blog/_adc/ringo-rs/11105274.jpg&imgrefurl=http://ringo-rs.blog.so-net.ne.jp/archive/200801-1&usg=__mVYeJ8EZ9VrYAql623KWuyPK-Fk=&h=460&w=690&sz=68&hl=en&start=391&tbnid=71tsn7X6eLFPjM:&tbnh=93&tbnw=139&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%25E5%25BA%2583%25E7%259B%25AE%25E5%25A4%25A9%26start%3D380%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefo x-a%26hs%3Dt7d%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26tbs%3Disch:1%26prmd%3Dni&itbs=1) (with Japanese text) using "広目天" as my search parameter:
http://ringo-rs.blog.so-net.ne.jp/blog/_images/blog/_adc/ringo-rs/11105274.jpg

There are three other fine pics that look to be from the same location, one of which looks like Bishamonten, and the other two look like Nio.

Tripitaka of AA
7th June 2010, 15:45
Does any have some small info regarding this photo. I am just curious. Thanks in advance.

Strangely, the info on that photographer's site doesn't seem to say which temple houses this statue. He does mention that there is a grill or mesh barrier around the statue which explains why the pics are both close-ups. The photographer has taken the pic through the bars.

Prince Loeffler
8th June 2010, 00:37
A-ha! Found this other angle of the OP picture, on a photography site (http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://ringo-rs.blog.so-net.ne.jp/blog/_images/blog/_adc/ringo-rs/11105274.jpg&imgrefurl=http://ringo-rs.blog.so-net.ne.jp/archive/200801-1&usg=__mVYeJ8EZ9VrYAql623KWuyPK-Fk=&h=460&w=690&sz=68&hl=en&start=391&tbnid=71tsn7X6eLFPjM:&tbnh=93&tbnw=139&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%25E5%25BA%2583%25E7%259B%25AE%25E5%25A4%25A9%26start%3D380%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefo x-a%26hs%3Dt7d%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26tbs%3Disch:1%26prmd%3Dni&itbs=1) (with Japanese text) using "広目天" as my search parameter:
http://ringo-rs.blog.so-net.ne.jp/blog/_images/blog/_adc/ringo-rs/11105274.jpg

There are three other fine pics that look to be from the same location, one of which looks like Bishamonten, and the other two look like Nio.

David...Your'e good !!!!

Brian Owens
8th June 2010, 10:38
I concur that this is Komokuten, and yes, it's not Shinto but Buddhist (via Hinduism).

Here's a link with more information:
http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/koumokuten.html

Tripitaka of AA
8th June 2010, 10:40
Brian is slipping. I thought he'd be the one to track down this one. His link is the one I put in post #8. :p

Brian Owens
8th June 2010, 10:56
Brian is slipping. I thought he'd be the one to track down this one. His link is the one I put in post #8. :p

I've been busy.

Also, I was just getting ready to edit my post, but the time expired while was was running out to my truck (I was having a late dinner at a restaurant) to plug into 12 volt as my battery was dying:

"EDIT: Well, I see now that my link is the same one already posted by David Noble. I should learn to look before I leap."

Tom Karazozis
8th June 2010, 13:57
Strangely, the info on that photographer's site doesn't seem to say which temple houses this statue.

The temple is called Tanashi-san Sojiji (田無山総持寺) and it's in Tokyo. Also, the two statues at the sanmon are indeed Bishamonten and Komokuten.

http://clova.jp/tanashi/pg29.html

Tripitaka of AA
8th June 2010, 14:38
Thanks Tom. That is great, as it shows what the statues look like with that stupid mesh in front of them. Props to you too, for correctly identifying the statue in the first place :).
http://clova.jp/tanashi/_src/sc303/770-200.jpg

Tripitaka of AA
8th June 2010, 17:36
I really have no life... I did some more surfing and came up with this stunning picture to illustrate just how easy it is for great things to go unnoticed. Here is the building that houses the two statues (Bishamonten and Komokuten). It is right on the street, forming the main gate to the temple grounds.
http://tencoo.fc2web.com/jinja/tn-sojiji01.jpg
It isn't an enormous temple and its location in Nishitokyo means it doesn't feature on every tourist's list. There is a Daruma Doll Festival in March, mentioned on the Japan Times list, which says it has approx. five stalls selling Daruma dolls - compare that with the festival at Jindaiji, Chofu (another suburb of Tokyo), which has 300 stalls!

I'd like to thank Prince for giving me something interesting to look at. I would probably have walked past this statue without even noticing it. On the photography site, he mentioned that he tried taking the picture in daylight but you couldn't get the detail, so he went back at night.

Brian Owens
9th June 2010, 04:36
...Here is the building that houses the two statues (Bishamonten and Komokuten).

http://tencoo.fc2web.com/jinja/tn-sojiji01.jpg

Actually, the gate houses two different statues, which I believe are niou. Here's a different view of that gate from the Web site linked to earlier:

http://clova.jp/tanashi/_src/sc278/j122.jpg

Are Bishmonten and Komokuten housed on the other side of this gate?

Tripitaka of AA
9th June 2010, 12:26
Sharp vision Brian! Those must be the two other pictures on the photographer's site.
http://ringo-rs.blog.so-net.ne.jp/blog/_images/blog/_adc/ringo-rs/11117294.jpg

http://ringo-rs.blog.so-net.ne.jp/blog/_images/blog/_adc/ringo-rs/11105309.jpg

So come on Prince. What's your story? How did you come by the first picture and what else do you want the detectives to tell you? :)

Prince Loeffler
10th June 2010, 00:45
So come on Prince. What's your story? How did you come by the first picture and what else do you want the detectives to tell you? :)


I was curious about the japanese gods were a while back and I googled it. I found the photograph liked it very much and was thinking of using to spice up a flyer. I had the photo saved in my hardrive for about a year now , until recently I just had no idea what it was and who it belongs to.

You guys are all awesome !