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AAC
4th March 2001, 07:47
Hajimemashite,
If i could have a minute to interact with the well weathered budoka, that makes e-budo such an excellent forum. Hopefully, the senior members here with authentic credentials in Japanese Gendai & Koryu sword arts will continue to share, their amazing amounts of knowledge and insight.

Decloaker engaged....
Perhaps being silent, with ears wide open has it's value. There were posts in the past few weeks, were senior members were treated ungraciously by a "Soke" who dropped in with long and at times rambiling posts. ..... then in a flash after announcing to e-budo, his decision to suspend permanently his postings...... retired back to the pastures of the greater Northwest. Yes, there still are Americans interested in Budo as it relates to Japanese culture, customs and practices. Their is a small hand full of pioneering people, (starting with the likes of the late Don Draeger) who opened the doors of koryu bujutsu. Strong willed individuals who are unconscious to their passions, (In Japan & overseas) have and will insure the survival of classical Japanese arts. Hopefully, undulated and in a dignified manner. Of course, we could just wrap PVC piping in foam rubber... and say it's part of a new progressive Americanized budo sword art... O'yeah... What does one's nationally have to do with "Japanese arts"? The above mentioned pioneers, were able to place nationally in it's congruent place. Japanese arts --- of all kinds--- are and will remain Japanese. Now with my two yen spent, I'll digress to the original topic.

I'm interested to know if anybody has information about Ioriken Battojutsu, a ryu dating from the Sengoku Jidai era? The ryu headed --in Tokyo-- by Teshinsai Uchida Sensei, apparently was taught the art from his father. After consulting the Bugei Ryu-Ha Daijiten, and other Japanese language sources I can't find it mentioned once. A second search by a japanese native, returned results constant with the first. Of course, the Bugei Ryuha Daijiten is not the beginning & end on ryuha. Also, there maybe a relationship between some gendai practitioners of Toyama Ryu... and Ioriken battojutsu. Perhaps I'm not using the correct formal name? Could anyone help, I'm out of ammo now.... However, could this bujutsu been so small, or obscure that it was over looked by Watatani & Yamada?humm...

ghp
4th March 2001, 15:52
AAC,

Firstly, Ioriken Battojutsu has no relationship with Toyama Ryu (or Nakamura Ryu). Mr. Obata Toshishiro was ranked in Ioriken as well as Toyama Ryu, so someone might have incorrectly assumed there was a relation.

According to what Mr. Obata told me way back in 1984 or so, Ioriken derives its name from Miyamoto Musashi's adopted son Iori (which sounds like "Yori" when spoken). However, I don't know if the style was established by Iori, or if someone else applied the name as a marketing ploy.

I recall being told that tameshigiri plays a major role as far as being ranked -- however, I do not any other requirements, or details, about the style.

Perhaps Obata sensei's student, Nathan Scott can paint a more clear picture of the ryuha.

Regards,
Guy

Nathan Scott
7th March 2001, 01:50
Hello Mr. Cobb,

I'm afraid I can't recall much about Ioriken Battojutsu. Most of what I know was published in one of our Shinkendo newsletters in 1995.

Fortunately, this particular article was reproduced on our webpage at shinkendo.com as follows:

**

Ioriken Battojutsu

by SoShihan T. Obata


Some Shinkendo students have asked about my previous training in different schools of swordsmanship, so I would like to explain about one school in which I hold Menkyo Kaiden (full transmission) rank. Ioriken Battojutsu is a sword style dating from the Sengoku era (Sengoku Jidai, period of continuous warfare in Japan from about 1482-1573). The ryu is presided over by 85 year old Teshinsai Uchida Sensei. Master Uchida is of Samurai descent and learned this art from his father who was also a Master of Ioriken Battojutsu. The Ioriken Battojutsu dojo is located in Kanagawa-ken, which is southwest of Tokyo.

About 18 years ago, a relationship developed between Toyama Ryu Battojutsu and Ioriken Ryu Battojutsu and that is how I became associated with this school. The style encompasses suburi (solo practice), kata (forms), and tameshigiri (test cutting). All sword techniques use two hands, and this ryu never gives out honorable dan rankings; all ranks are given in consideration of skill levels. I entered test cutting competitions in Ioriken Battojutsu and competed against one hundred to one hundred and fifty participants. The tournaments included ranking tests for first, second and third dans in which participants were required to cut ten standing straw bundle targets in quick succession. To qualify for third dan, a total of thirty cuts had to be executed over three consecutive rounds. All the cuts had to be perfect, no mistakes were allowed or you didn't pass. My times of 6.4, 6.4 and 6.7 seconds set a record. At that competition, only three other people were successful in cutting 30 cuts cleanly.

Other testing methods included cutting to the front and then turning and quickly cutting to the back. In this case, the targets were stalks of bamboo only 6 inches tall with the target area only 1 1/2 inches tall.

http://www.shinkendo.com/news.html#V1i3

**

I suspect you are already aware of this article though, judging from the similar choice of references in your post.

In addition to the information in this article, I do remember Obata Kaiso saying something about Uchida Sensei and Nakamura Sensei knowing each other, and that it was through this relationship that he had opted to train in Ioriken as well.

Anyway, it does appear to be a somewhat lesser known style. I'd be curious to hear from anyone who has had recent contact with this system!

Regards,

ghp
7th March 2001, 23:13
Nathan,

Thanks for that bit of history. Apparently, according to Mr. Obata's explanation, there was some sort of relation between Toyama Ryu and Ioriken -- but I don't think there was a "relationship" as far as waza, etc., are concerned. If there once was, it is no longer in effect.

I wonder if Obata sensei was referring to a personal relationship between Nakamura sensei and Uchida sensei; or if it was between Hayashi Kunishiro sensei (at that time Toyama Ryu) and Uchida sensei?

Regards,
Guy (who's still learning)

Nathan Scott
7th March 2001, 23:27
Hi Guy-san,

Funny enough, Sensei mentioned last night a few things regarding Nakamura Sensei. Apparently Obata S. met Nakamura S. during his time as uchi-deshi at the Yoshinkan (Aikido dojo). He had begun to assist Nakamura Sensei with his demonstrations, since apparently at that time he had not assistant, and test cutting in public was not openly embraced by many Japanese because of it's somewhat recent association with war attrocities.

It was sometime later that Mr. Hayashi had met Nakamura S., but at that time Obata S. had already been associating with him. Small world I guess.

At that time, Nakamura S. was just beginning to forumulate his version of Toyama ryu, and was apparently recruting instructors and students from Kendo and Iaido, of which he was already affiliated with.

As far as Uchida S., I got the feeling that it was more a personal relationship. I'll try to inquire about it and write back here if I get a chance in the near future.

Regards,