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Brad Hooper
6th March 2001, 14:39
First I would like to say Hi.

I have been lurking on these boards for a couple of months, but this is my first post.

I have studied Judo for the last year and a half. I practice in Austin, TX with Mr. Zdenek Matl.

Now for my question.

Can anyone suggest a book on Kosen Judo?

I am interested in both history and technique.

So far my limited research has led me to believe the following:

Kosen Judo is the University Judo, pre 1926, that deals primarily with newaza. Around 1900 Kosen Judo dominated a tournament with Kodokan players by engaging all fights on the ground. Kano restructured the competition rules to put more emphasis on throwing.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong ( most likely).

Thanks for your help.

Brad Hooper

Ben Reinhardt
6th March 2001, 16:58
Originally posted by Brad Hooper
First I would like to say Hi.

I have been lurking on these boards for a couple of months, but this is my first post.

I have studied Judo for the last year and a half. I practice in Austin, TX with Mr. Zdenek Matl.

Now for my question.

Can anyone suggest a book on Kosen Judo?

I am interested in both history and technique.

So far my limited research has led me to believe the following:

Kosen Judo is the University Judo, pre 1926, that deals primarily with newaza. Around 1900 Kosen Judo dominated a tournament with Kodokan players by engaging all fights on the ground. Kano restructured the competition rules to put more emphasis on throwing.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong ( most likely).

Thanks for your help.

Brad Hooper

+++Ben R.+++
Brad,

Kosen Judo is Judo with an emphasis on ne waza. It's more of a branch of Kodokan Judo rather than a separate style (as many seem to think).

KOSEN Judo never dominated or defeated the Kodokan Judo. Fusen Ryu Ju Jitsu did win a contest style meeting with the Kodokan around 1900. Kano then decided to add in their style of ne waza to the Kodokan syllabus...thus the Katame no Kata.

Try the World of Judo and Ju Jitsu for more info on the web, or just go to a search engine and type in Kosen Judo or Kosen to find other stuff. Kashiwazaki in his book "Osaekomi Waza" (published by Ippon Books) also has some info on KOSEN Judo.

In short KOSEN (it's an acronym so all caps) is Kodokan Judo, specializing in Ne Waza, as practiced by a group of elite universities/prep schools in Japan.

Ben Reinhardt

Brad Hooper
6th March 2001, 17:09
Ben,

Thank you for that information. I will check out the search engines today.

Would you happen to know what the letters KOSEN stand for?

I was also given the impression, from a friend of mine, that KOSEN Judo is primarily what Maeda did, and is why what he taught to the Gracie family focused primarily on ground work. Is this even close to correct?

Thanks again.


Brad Hooper

Ben Reinhardt
6th March 2001, 17:49
Originally posted by Brad Hooper
Ben,

Thank you for that information. I will check out the search engines today.

Would you happen to know what the letters KOSEN stand for?

I was also given the impression, from a friend of mine, that KOSEN Judo is primarily what Maeda did, and is why what he taught to the Gracie family focused primarily on ground work. Is this even close to correct?

Thanks again.


Brad Hooper

KOSEN...I've seen the translation of the acronym by can't remember it. It's nothing that really has anything to do with Judo...just a way to shorten a long name for the Japanese university system it represents.

Nobody but Helio Gracie knows for sure ! I wouldn't be surprised if he focused on groundwork, as it is easier to teach and learn quickly. I'm sure Maeda was expert at nage and katame waza, in any case. Again, KOSEN Judo is basically ne waza of Judo. Also, after Maeda left, I don't know of anyone who continued to teach the Gracies, so they may have focused on the groundwork as well because of lack of knowledge of the nage waza.

Watch out, there is a lot of bogus history floating around about Judo and the history of GJJ/BJJ.

Ben Reinhardt

Kit LeBlanc
7th March 2001, 03:02
Ben is right on about the history, a lot of wheat from chaff there.

I recommend the Budokan KOSEN Judo videos, which are excellent, and show that there is really nothing new in BJJ.

Then again they are exceedingly expensive.

Peter Boylan at Mugendo Budogu has contacts for some KOSEN Judo video suppliers. Try him at http: //www.budogu.com.

Kit LeBlanc

Brian Griffin
12th March 2001, 00:46
Kosen is not quite an acronym; it's more like a contraction of a contraction.

koutou gakkou means "high schools."
senmongakkou means "technical/professional universities."

Combining these two terms, we get the contacted form:
koutou senmongakkou which refers to a network of high schools, prep schools, and universities. It's comparable to the American term "Ivy League."

kousen is just a contraction for koutou senmongakkou.

I've written the foregoing in wapuro romaji to indicate the long vowels. If we forget that stuff, it's just koto senmongakko and kosen.

The early interscholastic (kosen) Kodokan Judo matches were fought under rules that allowed "drag-downs," so newaza tactics dominated.
Maeda Kousei was a Kodokan 4-dan from Waseda University.

Originally posted by Ben Reinhardt
Nobody but Helio Gracie knows for sure !
He might not know, either. Helio didn't train with Maeda, it was his eldest brother, Carlos. Helio was just a kid then. He picked it up from watching his older brothers practice.

As far as books go, try to find a copy of Ohashi's book from the mid-50s "A Guide To Judo Grappling Techniques" -- pure kosen, although that term appears nowhere in the book.
Ohashi seems to have been under the impression he was practicing Kodokan Judo. Imagine that!

Ben Reinhardt
12th March 2001, 02:47
Originally posted by Brian Griffin
Kosen is not quite an acronym; it's more like a contraction of a contraction.

koutou gakkou means "high schools."
senmongakkou means "technical/professional universities."

Combining these two terms, we get the contacted form:
koutou senmongakkou which refers to a network of high schools, prep schools, and universities. It's comparable to the American term "Ivy League."

kousen is just a contraction for koutou senmongakkou.

I've written the foregoing in wapuro romaji to indicate the long vowels. If we forget that stuff, it's just koto senmongakko and kosen.

The early interscholastic (kosen) Kodokan Judo matches were fought under rules that allowed "drag-downs," so newaza tactics dominated.
Maeda Kousei was a Kodokan 4-dan from Waseda University.

He might not know, either. Helio didn't train with Maeda, it was his eldest brother, Carlos. Helio was just a kid then. He picked it up from watching his older brothers practice.

As far as books go, try to find a copy of Ohashi's book from the mid-50s "A Guide To Judo Grappling Techniques" -- pure kosen, although that term appears nowhere in the book.
Ohashi seems to have been under the impression he was practicing Kodokan Judo. Imagine that!


thanks for the lowdown on the translationof KOSEN.

I chose Helio because as far as I know his older brother is dead !

Ben Reinhardt