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Anders Pettersson
13th March 2001, 13:11
Gassho.

Last year I took part in a Hombu Busen class with the late Bando-sensei. It was the regular Busen class on Seiho and the days main topic was on the neck, but since we were two foreigners there as well, and my friend is quite big and fit, Bando-sensei also thought that it was fun to try some Appou on us.

In this class I asked Bando-sensei if there were any official Seiho kamokuhyo (curriculum). He answered no, but that he at some point had discussed this with Hombu. I also asked Arai-sensei if they had any plans on making one and he answered that at the moment the didn't have any such plans.

What is the opinion of other kenshi here? Should we have an official kamokuhyo of Seiho techniques or is it not necessary?

Hombu have a project on Shakujo & Nyoi going on lead by Ueda-sensei, and some of the result from that project can be viewed in the February issue of the Japanese Magazine "full contact Karate" See the Big sticks thread.

Shouldn't we benefit if Hombu would make a similar thing with the Seiho techniques. As of today I think it is very different fro dojo to dojo on the basic knowledge on Seiho. Having an official Seiho Kamokuhyo in my opinion would make it easier to have a structured way of learning and teaching this.



So what are your opinions?

John McCollum
13th March 2001, 13:42
Dear All,

This might sound dramatic, however...

In my opinion, it is something of a priority to create kamokuhyo for the less commonly practiced areas of Shorinji Kempo, such as seiho, nyoi, shakujo, etc. Many of us are lucky enough to be taught by first or second generation students of Kaiso. The knowledge that they share is the first hand teachings of founder, and if nothing is done to preserve that knowledge for future generations, that I'm afraid much of it might be lost.

I also think Hombu should make a special effort in the seiho area. In my limited experience, the teaching of seiho varies widely according to instructor's preferences / experience etc. Introducing a curriculum would certainly mean some standardisation of these techniques.

I also happen to think that seiho is one of the most practical aspects of Shorinji Kempo. After all, it's much more common to find a friend with a stiff neck than a knife wielding maniac on the way to work.
:)

John

George Hyde
13th March 2001, 17:19
Hi All,

I recall Mizuno Sensei's recent answer to this question...

"Aural tradition"

This is a term, which I believe in Japanese carries a little more weight than the English (see A Book of Five Rings). Essentially if seiho were committed to paper, this would increase the possibility of it being 'acquired' by other disciplines and incorporated into their teaching. As it stands, seiho is very much an SK preserve.

Having said that, I have often wished for a formalised syllabus. By this I mean something akin to what we have for general waza - a guide to techniques that could be attached to each grade, but without any instructional notes. If incorporated into the general syllabus this would ensure that instructors with limited knowledge (like myself) would be obliged to acquire said skill. As it is, we can pretty much get by with a basic understanding.

With regard to the acquisition of such skills, we are lucky enough to have one or two adepts in the UK and a formal seiho seminar is planned.

Later,

John McCulloch
13th March 2001, 17:26
Gassho,

It would be a really good idea to establish a Seiho Kamokuhyo. As John correctly states, Seiho is of great practical value and fits well with our philosophy, i.e. "half for self, half for others" and "unity of body and mind."

It's true that there is considerable variation between branches in the practice of Seiho. One reason for this may be that Branch Masters with a limited knowledge of Seiho will likely avoid teaching it (or worse, teach something that is wrong). Another possibility is that Branch Masters know their kenshi will not be examined on it and prefer to teach only what's necessary to pass a test.

I propose that by the time someone reaches 3rd dan, and could technically qualify to become a Branch Master, that they would have mastered all basic Seiho waza, e.g. neck, upper back, lower back. More esoteric/advanced Seiho could come later. As to what rank would be a good point to start studying a Seiho Kamokuhyo, I'm not sure. For beginners it might be a case of information overload.

Finally, with the recent loss of Bando-sensei I think it is even more urgent to study carefully and formalize his teachings.

Best wishes,

John McCollum
15th March 2001, 00:45
Originally posted by George Hyde

Essentially if seiho were committed to paper, this would increase the possibility of it being 'acquired' by other disciplines and incorporated into their teaching. As it stands, seiho is very much an SK preserve.


Dear all,

Firstly, while I take your point about the uniqueness of seiho in the martial arts world, and the importance of "aural tradition" as you put it, I have one or two questions to ask.

Would it necessarily be a bad thing to share what we know with other martial artists? If seiho enables our friends in other MAs to train longer, more safely, and with a better awareness of the limitations of their bodies then why should we jealously guard this knowledge?

Lets not forget that Kaiso studied with many people in many various MAs before devising Shorinji Kempo!


Originally posted by John McCulloch
As to what rank would be a good point to start studying a Seiho Kamokuhyo, I'm not sure. For beginners it might be a case of information overload.


Well, by the time new students are sitting their first grading, we would expect them to have a strong sense of the importance of training safely, if nothing else. We would expect them to know, for example, why sokuto geri to the knee is a BAD thing. Why not apply the same principles to seiho practice? For example not putting pressure on the vertebrae, the knee joint etc. If Seiho was to become more prominent within classes, then this would be of paramount importance. It's as easy to do damage with bad seiho as bad technique....

Finally, I'd just like to say that I would like to see more time devoted to seiho practice - it saddens me when it is relegated to five minutes at the end of class.

Best wishes,