Sword

[Demian]

Hello,

I hope you are all doing well.

A friend of mine owns and old Japanese Sword and I was wondering if anyone could give some information about it. It can be viewed here:

http://commack.suffolk.lib.ny.us/Dan_sword/dan_sword.html

Thank you.

-Demian

[John Lindsey]

Boy, that sword has seen some hard times! It is hard to say without seeing the tang since the blade it so badly stained. It is in ww-2 gunto army mounts and probably not stainless steel...weren't navy gunto the only ones with that? Anyhow, he should find someone from a local Token-kai sword study group who can safely remove the handle if he is worried about doing it.

I also suggest that he not train with it since it is in poor shape.

BTW, please sign your full name since that is our rule :).

[glad2bhere]

Dear D:

At first blush the fittings all seem to suggest a common WW II officers sword. The leather-bound saya and the chrysanthimum menuki are pretty common. I had not seen that particular tsuba before and it could easily have been added by the original owner, or perhaps by a later owner. I was also surprised by the darkness of the hamon and wondered if this blade has been damaged in someway other than normal wear and tear. The chip out of the blade could be just about any kind of abuse including the original owner attempting cutting practice. I would really wait and have someone take a look at the tang. Its apparent that someone has been examining something as the pegs appear uncharacteristically ragged. Of course, thats not to say that some bozo didn't super-glue the grip on for safety reasons. I'd be interested to hear what better-informed sources on the Net might have to say.

Best Wishes,

Bruce W Sims
www.midwesthapkido.com

[Demian]

Originally posted by John Lindsey
Boy, that sword has seen some hard times! It is hard to say without seeing the tang since the blade it so badly stained. It is in ww-2 gunto army mounts and probably not stainless steel...weren't navy gunto the only ones with that? Anyhow, he should find someone from a local Token-kai sword study group who can safely remove the handle if he is worried about doing it.

Hey John,

Thanks for the info. That is pretty much what I was thinking as well, except for the stainless steel part. It looks like it has been machine made, but I am no expert and as such could be wrong.


I also suggest that he not train with it since it is in poor shape.

I'm not to worried about him training with it since he doesn't train:)


BTW, please sign your full name since that is our rule :).

Sorry it's been awhile ;)

Demian Meyer

[H. Hoshino]

Dear Demian San,

You frined has a really good sword. It is a Katana. Basically the Katana is any blade longer than 60 cm or approximately 24 inches.

Note: one inch = 2.54 cm ( 60 cm divide by 2.54 cm = 23.62 inches )

The Mei ( Inscription ) reading is Bu shu Kan da ju Kane tsune. / Bushu = Edo ( Tokyo ) area / Kanda ( A section in Tokto ) / ju = residence / Kanetsune is the 1st name of Katana-kaji ( Swortdmsith )

The value of this sword is anywhere from $ 16,000 to $ 18,000 if the sword is polished, in the Shira-saya ( Storage scabbard & handle ) and certified by the Japanese sword appraiser in Japan.

I am just currious about the length of this sword. The official length of this sword should be measured from the Mine-machi ( Non-blade side notch ) to the Kirisaki ( Tip ).

I assume that this must be a Josunto ( Standard size sword ) over 2 Shaku 3 Sun or 69 cm ( Approximately 27 & 1/4 inches ).

Do not show this sword to the unscrupulous sword dealer in your local area. They have the shady manuever.

Their shady manuever # 1

They will tel you that your sword is only worth $ 200 because it is not polished and cannot see the Hamon ( Temering line ) and Hada ( Texture ). They will buy it from you at $ 500. The next day, they will sell your sword for $ 5,000 or more !

Their shady manuever # 2

They will tell you that your sword is not worth keeping. They will trade your sword one of their less valuable swords for yours. The following week, they will sell your sword for $ 10,000.

Will be talking with you again.

Sincerely,

H. Hoshino / On a Happy Day in San Francisco, California

PS. Our new Governor said Kalifornia during the lunch time today !

:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

[H. Hoshino]

Dear Demian San,

Your sword was produced in the Joukyou Era ( 1684 - 1688 ).

Shinto ( New sword ) from 1596 - 1764

Will be talking with you again.

Sincerely,

H. Hoshino

On a Happy Day in San Francisco, California

:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

[Trevor]

Wow. This thread is good for my information too. I have a sword that looks almost identical to the one in question (the tsuba is different, and the saya has wire wound around the top an bottom... and it's in better condition).

My dad pulled it out of a garbage can when he was young. He took it to a sword dealer who said it was a WW II military sword, and that it was worth $40 (this was in the late 60's). Because he thought it was worth so little, he used it to cut down weeds on the farm.

I found it (decades later) in the trash. He decided to throw it away! I asked my dad about it, and he told me the story of how he found it, and let me keep it (ironic that it was found in the trash twice).

I never thought much of it, because my dad said it was only worth $40, but it's the sword that I keep under my bed (just in case).

After reading H. Hoshino messages, I'm going to look into getting it polished and appraised.

Thanks!

[Gomur]

Trevor, so that you do not end up wasting your money on Harunaka Hoshino's words. I highly suggest you look up his past and his history. View this thread as it does include information about him.


http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23805



V Nguyen

[Soulend]

I am wondering how Mr. Hoshino gets such an exhorbitant value for this blade. A Kanetsune (Musashi province, not the one from Mino) gets a point value of 5 (lowest), and this one is in dismal condition due to myriad kizu and corrosion. I'm certainly no expert, but this appears to be a 'dead' blade - irrepairable.

What makes this sword so unusual that it is worth so much?

[Kendoguy9]

Hello all,

Let's not forget the shady maneuver number 3 by disreputable sword polishers.

They tell you your sword is worth lots of money, and that everyone else is out to rob you. They'll tell you how expensive other Japanese sword polishers in Japan are, talk up how great they are compared to the Japanese guys and offer to do the job at half the price or even less! Then when you send it to them, it gets lost in the mail and you are out of your nice sword (that probably isn't worth anywhere near as much as you were told because no one can appraise swords via pictures alone, but still worth more then the nothing you are now left with). If you are lucky enough to get your blade back it will surely mutilated from lack of skill or understanding of the proper shape of swords.

For actual advise on sword polishing and gendaito/shinsakuto I would contact Mr. Chris Bowen. He is a Westerner who lives in Japan and is on personal terms with Japan's finest smiths, polishers and saya makers. He can arrange for nearly any service you need and I understand he can still get you a good price. He has devoted his study to swords made this century and knows more about them then probably anyone. His email address is kuribo@thn.ne.jp. Remember you get what you pay for.

gambatte!!!

[koeikannidan]

Watch out for anything Mr Hoshino says about restoring your sword for you. I flew out to San Fran where his dojo is at and left my tachi with him. He claimed it would take three (3) weeks for restoration work. Togi(polish), New Tsuka, New Saya. After almost four months I started to worry if my sword was going to be returned. I called and left countless messages at his Dojo and his home. I sent countless emails as well with no reply. I finnally had to fly back to San Fran to get my sword back. I paid him what was due and he still doesnt have my new saya done. Almost five months later.
The work he did was not that good either.

watch out for that one.............................

[Rangersteve]

Demian,
Sorry for the very late response to your post; I'm new to the forum and just saw your post yesterday.

Comments regarding Hoshino's motives aside, he did a good job of reading the kanji on your friends sword. I looked up Kanetsune in Hawleys and found that there were two smiths listed who signed Bushu Kanda Ju Kanetsune. They were both from Musashi Province and both worked in the Tenna era - 1681 - 1684. Hawley also says they were both the son of Kaneshige! I suspect that Hawley has listed the same smith twice. The first is KAN 2807 and the second is 2818 on page 204 of volume 1 of Hawleys.

I then looked in Fujishiro and found your smith listed on page 55 of the Shinto volume. He is listed as a chu Saku maker - mid range in quality. Unfortunatly there was no oshigata for the smith in Fujishiro to compare with the picture of the mei you posted.

I then looked at his father Kaneshige in Nagayama's Connoisseur's book and found that Kaneshige is said to have been the teacher of Kotetsu - one of the most respected makers of the Shinto period. Kaneshige worked in Enpo era - 1673-1681 also in Musashi Province (Edo - now Tokyo).

It is beyond me to understand how Hoshino could have possibly placed a value on your friends sword without examining it and getting a good polish on it first. It looks to me like it may have suffered smoke damage from a fire, and that means it may have been exposed to heat which may have altered its temper. If the blackness is not smoke, then whatever is going on may alter its value. In any case I don't see how a sword by a chu saku maker in modest mounts and poor condition could bring $16-18K without some further investment. I suppose if you had a good polish put on it and sent it to Japan for shinsa and it papered well it may be worth that in the right market - but I know little about placing value.

IMHO it is not Shingunto. I think it is probably what it appears to be - a 320 year old samurai sword-probably remounted for the war. Best wishes for a successful restoration.

Steve Johnson