View Full Version : Tomiki Aikido 2

16th March 2001, 16:22
Hi Everyone,
Any Tomiki Aikido practitioners out there?
Which are your favourite/most successful competition techniques?
Tim Burton UK

18th March 2001, 17:44
Come on people lets have a few competition techniques discussed here!
After initial avoidance and control of the attack in randori I attempt Gedan Ate whilst breaking balance by inserting my leading elbow up into the armpit of the captured arm. A twist of my hips towards the attacker throws them over my lead leg.
If this technique fails and my elbow slips out, I continue the turn into Kote gaeshi and continue the pivot in order to throw them whilst continuing the dynamics of the initial technique. If uke manages to resist and pulls free during either technique I immediately close in and attempt Shomen Ate with the hand nearest them against their nearest shoulder and my other arm cuts away the knee of their lead leg to prevent retreat, thus throwing them onto their back.

19th March 2001, 03:36
Hey again ;),
I havent actually competed in shiai (i have competed in kata), but in my dojo, we dont mess around. i find gedan ate to be a good one on taller folks, while shorter people always get a good aigamae ate. kote gaeshi is a good counter,but hard to lead with.But really, the most effective technique is the one that works. THis sounds reawlly broad, but what a good tori should focus on is taisabaki and let waza fall into his hands. hiji-tekubi-uki waza are pretty rare due to their need for bigger kuzushi, which is not easy in randori. Atemi waza is good because of how...well... if your timing is good, then atemi is a snap. Practice makes for BETTER technique, though. And as we all can say, i need more practice.

19th March 2001, 09:04
Hi Bobby,
If you are applying Ai gamae ate as per the Randori no kata, then I find that as one breaks Tanto’s balance to the rear, then cutting/pushing in with our nearest hip against their hip will increase the success of the technique.
An exercise I teach to my students is one that explores Ma-ai, in order that they can experience it at work. Thus forming a basic understanding of the principle of ma-ai quickly.
First allocate an area two tatami square and only allow Toshu and Tanto to move around its edge. Tanto can thrust at any time, but Toshu will soon clearly see that Tanto will try to close the distance between them to a “comfortable” one before attempting an attack. Many times Tanto will inadvertently invade the area of the square or cut its corners whilst trying to shorten the ma-ai before they thrust. It does not take long before Toshu recognises the attacking ma-ai unique to this particular partner. Toshu can then use this new knowledge to react to attacks a fraction of a second before they are generated because they recognise the sign of Tanto moving into their comfortable attack position, just before the thrust is made.
Later, additions to this exercise can be added, such as getting Toshu to cause/illicit an attack from Tanto by reducing the ma-ai themselves, thus dictating when Tanto will attack without Tanto realising this is occurring.
Tanto can also benefit by changing the exercise in order to encourage their thrusts to be made over a greater distance than normal in order to monopolise on the ma-ai of Toshu’s comfort zone. Attacking from outside this has the effect of stunning Toshu as they struggle mentally for a split second to comprehend that an attack has been made without invading their safe zone first.

19th March 2001, 23:33
The hips in aigamae are a must. unless that guy is just burnin it in there, hips are indespensable. We work on ma-ai in my dojo to a good extent. we are taught to understand that the only way to succesfully fight any type of fighter is to control the ma-ai. I feel really good about my abilities with ma-ai because my sensei's sensei was a master of using ma-ai, so my sensei was taught well.

20th March 2001, 07:50
Hi Bobby,
It is nice to see that Tomiki’s principles do not differ around the world. Here’s a basic combination.
Evade to your left front corner and deflect the arm to your right with your left palm. Place the little finger edge of your right hand on their right shoulder, keeping your arm straight and in your center. Push them back as they retreat using the power from your legs not your arm. Sweep their right leg with your left hand to unbalance them to their rear.
Evade to your left front corner and deflect the arm down with a cross block. Slide your left arm in between their body and right arm and bring your right arm over to trap the forearm against your chest. Turn your body clockwise to apply the lock breaking their balance forwards. Take them to the floor in a 360-degree spiral motion.
I use these two techniques in conjunction with each other to form a basic combination. If shomen ate is attempted and uke adjusts their posture to resist the technique then I change to ude garami. Likewise if uke is able to pull away from ude garami then I go with them and apply shomen ate.

20th March 2001, 10:25
Its so difficult to do a technique in shiai that i would encourage the learning of 'pet' or favourite techniques which can be applied without 'winding' them up. A technique which is not second nature rarely works unless against an unskilled player.
At the moment I have only a four techniques I can do consistently and that is after years of experience.
I used to have only one.

I guess the eventual aim is to do combination techniques to you set-up a response to one techniques to make easier the application of a second. For combination techniques, I have been taught that alternting kansetsuwaza and atemiwaza is a good practise bearing in mind that certain techniques logically lead to others but some combinations are hard to make work.

In preparation for competition you cannot beat uchikome and I do thousands a week.

Do you learn the 4 basic balance breakers ?- i.e. 2 jodan, 2 chudan. For me everything comes from them exept sumi-otoshi and mae-otoshi.

20th March 2001, 12:27
Hi Sam,
You make a very valid point concerning Shiai, in many of the contests I have witnessed, the person with the Tanto is declared the winner as they have been the only one’s to score with a clean thrust. The discussion about favourite technique and their combinations relate to randori practice as it is here that they can be tested. Once in shiai then it is sudden death so to speak and a practitioner usually relies upon a tried and tested technique they can apply from many situations. However it is these combinations that we must take forward into shiai in order to develop them.
As you also mention some techniques lend themselves to others, here it is good practice to monitor our technique to see what alternative we have if we turn the wrong way under stress, for example if one is able to grasp and control the wrist and pivots under the arm. Then we will either be in Tenkai Kote Hineri or Tenkai Kote Gaeshi, dependant on which way we turn, either technique is a suitable response under stress, so one should not experience the feeling that we have done the “wrong thing”.
I teach the practice of shichihon no kuzushi to assist the student to understand the correct ways to displace an opponents balance in order to best apply a suitable technique. You are also right, Sumi otoshi and mae otoshi are uki waza and the principle is one of a floating technique.
Do you have much success with Ushiro Ate during shiai?

20th March 2001, 21:31
Hi Tim
I am enjoying this thread very much as I am trying to prepare as best I can for international competition and I am training about six times a week, so I am always interested in new ways to learn and improve my randori.

At the moment I am trying to condition myself to do combinations of techniques automatically.
As always I am finding speed a big problem!
Also timing is one of the main skills to learn and as you work your way up to more experienced players your timing need to be better and better.

I find ushiro-ate extremely difficult to use as an opening technique as it is very difficult to get behind somebody, however is invaluble when tanto/toshu turn their back on you in order to escape a technique. I was recently thrown for ippon by tanto at a competition because I over commited a balance breaker.
One of the great things about losing because of a certain technique is that you learn that technique!

Sam Benson

20th March 2001, 23:56
I dont have very much success with ushiro, but my freind that accompanied me went up first round against (i think) the national (world?) champion and he got 4 ushiros on my poor freind. maybe 3. i cant remember. it was hilarious though

Karl Kuhn
21st March 2001, 03:20
Another intersting thread! A rather large topic though, isn't it?

I think a good rule is to really focus on the kuzushi and the waza will present itself. I know that may sound a bit hackneyed but it's true. I 've witnessed a lot of players with "plans" and "counters" all set that do not work because they are thinking too far ahead.

Someone metntioned alternating between kansetsuwaza and atemiwaza. This is a very important bit. They are almost like th two poles of randori, there is seldomn one without the other, at least a very convincing threat of one.

Ushiro-ate is just tough to get off looking pretty. I see alot of planting the foot and spinning the hips down (and it works) but rarely a proper ushio-ate. Legend has it around Shodokan Honbu that Nariyama Sensei was renowned for his textbook Ushiro in his competative days. Must have been something to see, a couple of the old guys were still shaking their heads as they told about it.


Karl Kuhn

22nd March 2001, 08:10
I also practice Randori no Kata and Ura waza, whilst alone. Is it just me, or do we all do it? It is interesting because by emphasising the atemi, one can also make it look rather Karatelike. If you slow it right down it looks like Taichi. Anyway practising alone allows me to concentrate on a particular aspect for that session such as foot positions.