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TIM BURTON
22nd March 2001, 08:35
Hi,
I recently acquired a copy of The Complete Kano Jiu-jitsu (Jiudo) by Hancock & Higashi 2nd edition 1927. This makes interesting reading concerning the techniques included in the art at that time.

Ben Reinhardt
22nd March 2001, 14:23
Originally posted by TIM BURTON
Hi,
I recently acquired a copy of The Complete Kano Jiu-jitsu (Jiudo) by Hancock & Higashi 2nd edition 1927. This makes interesting reading concerning the techniques included in the art at that time.

But was it really authorized by Kano as an official book about Kodokan Judo ? Somehow I don't think so. It looks much too crude for that to me.

It is an interesting book, though !

Ben Reinhardt

Joseph Svinth
23rd March 2001, 08:16
Richard Bowen has quoted Trevor Leggett as saying that Kano was rather upset by Hancock's usage, but as Japan was not a signatory to the Berne Convention at the time, there wasn't much he could do.

The first edition of Hancock's book was published in New York in 1905, and the conference that codified judo did not take place until July 1906. The style shown is more likely the jujutsu practiced by Higashi, which *may* have been Tsutsumi Hozan Ryu. Therefore, for an idea about what judo looked like in the early days, a better source would be Arima's "Judo: Japanese Physical Culture," published in 1904 and introduced by Kano.

Note also that there was a discussion of all this in Media some months ago.

TIM BURTON
23rd March 2001, 18:36
Thanks for the info, do you have any more on Tsutsumi Hozan Ryu and Higashi?

Joseph Svinth
24th March 2001, 08:28
PM Neil Hawkins about Tsutsumi Hozan Ryu.

For Robert Edgren hyping Higashi prior to his match with George Bothner (Higashi lost), see http://ejmas.com/jcs/jcsart_edgren1_0300.htm . For Graham Noble's description of Higashi's match with Yukio Tani in Paris a few months later (Higashi lost), see http://ejmas.com/jalt/jaltart_Noble_1000.htm .

There were also a number of judo-related books and articles by Hancock that all appeared during 1904-1905; most of these should be available at the British Library.

MarkF
24th March 2001, 11:35
Originally posted by Ben Reinhardt
But was it really authorized by Kano as an official book about Kodokan Judo ? Somehow I don't think so. It looks much too crude for that to me.

It is an interesting book, though !

Ben Reinhardt



That's what I thought in looking through it, thanks to a good friend who copied me the book, but the stuff on kuatsu was very good, if not a tick overblown. The techniques are sound for the day (some even for today), and contained some of the best pieces in the book.

Mark

PS: I just wish I wasn't so much of an "there's always tomorrow" and just bought out the book stores with my allowence. I did pick up a couple of now out of print, but nothing super. One was called "Judo-do." I'd have to go through a lot of trouble to remember the author, but the bookcover said it was written by a "nidan master" of judo. From the fifties.

Joseph Svinth
24th March 2001, 12:16
Mark --

I am just looking through bibliographies, but is this it?

Hubert Klinger-Klingerstorff, "Judo and Judo-Do" (London: Herbert Jenkins, Ltd., 1952, 1953).

If so, there is a mention at http://www.members.aon.at/judo-do/judodo_fe.htm and http://www.maths.monash.edu.au/~mbahlo/askafi/strauss.html

Robert Reinberger might know more.

TIM BURTON
24th March 2001, 13:35
Another couple of golden oldies I have in my library are, The text book of Ju-Jitsu as practised in Japan, by S Uyenishi (Raku) and The art of Ju-Jitsu by E J Harrison published under the auspices of Yukio Tani.

MarkF
25th March 2001, 11:38
Joe,
Well, it wasn't written by this 67 year old superman who claims on this site to be the oldest teacher. If it is concerning this Judo-do, it may be true, but who knows? The quote, though is a preface of the book, and it (the book) was written by a Brit if memory serves. As most of my stuff this too is stored, but I will dig it out. The author was 2-dan, though, definitely. John Lindsey has it and posted a picture of the dust cover. He was asking what judo-do was, and it was this book which has me looking beyond the competition of those days, anyway.

I didn't start this until my body caved in under massive pressure of the goons I was constantly fighting in shiai. This I took from the one site, because it fits me (I'm not that old, thoug) pretty well physically and I am German to boot (second generation).


[b]"I am 5 feet 3 inches, 9 stone, and I am 67 years old (in 1975); that about makes me the oldest active Instructor. I am still standing 3 to 4 days a week on the mats teaching. My reputation from some say I am a dirty professional and asking too much on clean technique, and that I am not satisfied with today's trend of knowing only four throws to win contests. This is true. I believe knowledge, skill, and proficiency in all throwing techniques are important to improve and ripen the technique of such contestants for their sport AND their self defence. Our aim is to raise responsible Instructors".



I'd say Kenneth Kuniyuki is the oldest active instructor, as Mr. Larry Kobayashi at 76, claims Kuniyuki to be his teacher [b]in the present tense.[b]

Mark

Ben Reinhardt
26th March 2001, 15:50
Originally posted by MarkF
Joe,
Well, it wasn't written by this 67 year old superman who claims on this site to be the oldest teacher. If it is concerning this Judo-do, it may be true, but who knows? The quote, though is a preface of the book, and it (the book) was written by a Brit if memory serves. As most of my stuff this too is stored, but I will dig it out. The author was 2-dan, though, definitely. John Lindsey has it and posted a picture of the dust cover. He was asking what judo-do was, and it was this book which has me looking beyond the competition of those days, anyway.

I didn't start this until my body caved in under massive pressure of the goons I was constantly fighting in shiai. This I took from the one site, because it fits me (I'm not that old, thoug) pretty well physically and I am German to boot (second generation).



I'd say Kenneth Kuniyuki is the oldest active instructor, as Mr. Larry Kobayashi at 76, claims Kuniyuki to be his teacher [b]in the present tense.[b]

Mark

Mr. Masao Yamashita, 7th Dan, of Boise Valley Judo Club, is around 80 (at least). He is still on the mat teaching. My own current sensei is 67 years old.

I think there may well be a lot of older instructors around, who are still active.

Ben Reinhardt

Joseph Svinth
27th March 2001, 07:16
Hank Ogawa at Ore-Ida is also in his early 80s, and Jim Onchi in Portland, Richard Yamamoto in Spokane, and Kenji Yamada in Seattle aren't far behind. Even Phil Porter is in that ballpark, if I'm not mistaken. So judo seems to do fairly well as far as keeping folks involved in a variety of roles over time.

MarkF
27th March 2001, 12:02
Originally posted by MarkF
"I am 5 feet 3 inches, 9 stone, and I am 67 years old (in 1975); that about makes me the oldest active Instructor. I am still standing 3 to 4 days a week on the mats teaching. My reputation from some say I am a dirty professional and asking too much on clean technique, and that I am not satisfied with today's trend of knowing only four throws to win contests. This is true. I believe knowledge, skill, and proficiency in all throwing techniques are important to improve and ripen the technique of such contestants for their sport AND their self defence. Our aim is to raise responsible Instructors".



I think this guy was speaking about his own "Judo-do" when he made this statement. Certainly, even when he wrote this there were older judoka.

Kuniyuki was 90 as of last summer. Larry Kobayashi still refers to him as his teacher. Phil Porter should be 79, as the last time I bothered to look, he was 78, and that was probably a year ago. Vince Tamura is getting up there, but as I unfairly referred to him being in his eighties or some such untruth, without the sense to check then.

As to my own teachers, one is in his early seventies, the other passed away in December, 1989. He was the man I called sensei, Tokuo "Bob" Ota.

Mark