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Jake McKee
23rd March 2001, 01:44
Has anyone seen the Shinto Muso Ryu Jodo videos by Shinmabukuro Sensei on Panther Videos? Any comments? Are there are any other SMR videos available in English?

The only Japanese SMR videos I've come across are a 3 part series from Matsui Kenji Sensei. Again, any comments on these or any other SMR videos would be greatly appreciated!

Harold James
23rd March 2001, 03:48
There is another video in Japanese called "Jodo" put out by the folks at the Zen Nihon Kendo Renmei. It covers only the seitei forms. I can't remember who is in it. It's pretty old, I bought my copy 6 years ago, and it's been a while since I've watched it. I did see it for sale the other day, so it is still vailable. It is really boring to watch too, I might add.

But then, as far as the seitei forms go, Matsui Kenji's video is enough... there really isn't any varation in how the seitei forms are done.

Meik Skoss
30th March 2001, 02:04
H. James wrote: "But then, as far as the seitei forms go, Matsui Kenji's video is enough... there really isn't any varation in how the seitei forms are done."

Not entirely true. Seiteigata *means* standardized form and that implies the waza are done all the same, but it is also the case that there are some differences, based on who the person is and that individual's teachers and "flavor" of technique.

A case in point is that the first eight techniques of the ZenKenRen Jodo Seiteigata are used by members of the Seiryukai in the U.S. as a sort of "feeder" mechanism. It allows the beginning student to get a feel for what jodo is all about and then, if it's appropriate (according to the instructor), students can move into the koryu sequence by learning Tsubawari (the second technique in Omote). They will automatically know over half the Omote waza, having learned up through Monomi (excepting Ukan).

I think it's a great way to filter students. Some are just not meant for koryu, for one reason or another, but that doesn't mean they can't do jo. Others might only want to study the Seiteigata techniques due to demands on their time or constraints in their training. This lets folks train appropriately.

Meik Skoss
30th March 2001, 23:52
Duuuhhh... I forgot to add that there are differences in the way the Seiteigata techniques are performed. For instance, in the Seiryukai, uchidachi will often attack the shidachi from right off the shoulder or after raising the sword while closing the distance, as done in the koryu, rather than coming to a stop, raising the sword through jodan and then cutting the opponent (the "official" way mandated for the Seiteigata). Furthermore, there's a difference in hassuji: Seiryukai's cut is at an angle, the ZenKenRen cut is more a straight vertical line.

I'm not criticizing one at the expense of the other, even though I prefer the more aggressive style we practise in the koryu. Both methods have their place and there's a real value to knowing different interpretations of any given technique.

Just setting the record straight...

Harold James
9th April 2001, 05:35
Mr. Skoss

I have been off-line for a bit and unable to reply to this thread until now.

I guess I wasn't entirely clear when I wrote that Matsui's tape of the Seiteigata is enough because there isn't a lot of variation in the kata. Thanks for you explinations on this, but are you saying that there is a wide variation in the kata in respect to grading? I know that the grading exams are not so strict... say until around 4-dan, but at that level is there a standard ZENKEN way to do the kata or can one still get by doing kata with slight variations when maybe your partner might be from a different organization with a different way of doing the kata? I know Matsui sits on the grading panal (at all the ones I've been to at Ayase anyway, my own teacher as well.) and so I wrote that his tape is enough as I believed it represented a good example of the ZENKEN kata as far as the ZENKEN kata goes.

I would like to ask you, what are they (the ZENKEN folks) looking for when grading the kata for rank (at 4-dan and up)?

Thanks

tHJ

Meik Skoss
9th April 2001, 06:02
Okay, *now* I get it. Mr. James is quite right in saying that there isn't (or "shouldn't" be) any variation in doing the Seiteigata. That is, after all, what seiteigata means: standard[ized] form/technique[s]. Ideally, from what the various ZenKenRen grading materials say, exponents of whatever teacher (or whatever ryu) should do things in pretty much the same manner.

Where I was going with the comments I made in regard to variant ways of doing Seiteigata was that, in what I'll call the Nishioka line of teaching, some people do waza in a Shinto Muso-ryu/koryu style way, whether they are doing koryu or seiteigata techniques. It has more to do with the timing and trajectory of the movements. What I see a lot of ZenKenRen-type people do is mechanical in nature, with not a lot of zest or pizazz to it. Conversely, koryu technique has a *lot* of variation in appearance and feeling, and it's possible to do the Seiteigata waza as though they were the older style.

As far as ZenKenRen grading is concerned, up to godan, it is enough to do only the Seiteigata. After that, one is required to do koryu waza of one sort or another. While it is not essential that the waza be that of Shinto Muso-ryu, I've never seen anybody do any other system at a ZenKenRen examination. I have wanted to try it, but've been told by my teachers to siddown and act like an adult (to the extent possible). It'd be rather cool, huh?, to lay a technique or two on them that came from other ryu. They really couldn't say no, according to the rules, but I bet one'd get some funny looks for doing it. Well, it was just a thought...