Why, and How Do You Practice Self Protection?

[Hissho]

Our discussions have me interested in how people view personal protection practice, either within their chosen discipline or as a separate practice.

Why, if at all, do you practice dedicated self protection skills?

If not, does your art give you what you need in terms of self protection?

How does your art do this? What does self protection practice look like in your art?

Do you practice awareness, verbal interaction and de-escalation in a modern context?

Just for starters....I practice martial arts, but do a dedicated self protection class that is full spectum verbal interaction, evasion, unarmed defense, edged weapons, concealed carry firearms, and professional applications for police and military. This is separate from my martial arts practice. Martial arts, with specific adaptations, is but a small part of the self protection package, so to speak.

[Hissho]

Oops! Also wanted to ask these questions:

Do you practice threat assessment/decision making/reasonable (and legal) force articulation in your self defense practice?


Do you engage in scenario practice?

If you train with firearms (even firearms disarming), have you ever practiced shoot-no shoot decision making, and have you ever used Simunition marking cartridges or Airsoft or other projectile training in the context of the above?

I am asking to both get an idea of this wide and diverse collection of martial artists view on self protection, their experience and interest with dedicated self protection training, and at what levels they have and would be interested in training.

[Kendoguy9]

Professionally I've found verbal de-escalation to be a very helpful tool. It also seems to buy time to assess the situation more fully when you arrive on scene. In our academy class we are taught Verbal Judo (or whatever it is called these days). I've found the methods work most of the time. There are always those few that you just can't get through to so you have to use a different tactic.

[TonyU]

Oops! Also wanted to ask these questions:

Do you practice threat assessment/decision making/reasonable (and legal) force articulation in your self defense practice?


Do you engage in scenario practice?

If you train with firearms (even firearms disarming), have you ever practiced shoot-no shoot decision making, and have you ever used Simunition marking cartridges or Airsoft or other projectile training in the context of the above?

I am asking to both get an idea of this wide and diverse collection of martial artists view on self protection, their experience and interest with dedicated self protection training, and at what levels they have and would be interested in training.
Yes, to pretty much everything, but then again, you pretty much know my background. ;)

[TonyU]

Professionally I've found verbal de-escalation to be a very helpful tool. It also seems to buy time to assess the situation more fully when you arrive on scene. In our academy class we are taught Verbal Judo (or whatever it is called these days). I've found the methods work most of the time. There are always those few that you just can't get through to so you have to use a different tactic.
Agreed! I work for a county agency where sometimes I arrive on scene after the locals have been there and pissed off the witnesses. Many times I've gotten what I needed by being the calm voice of reason.

[Richard Scardina]

Our discussions have me interested in how people view personal protection practice, either within their chosen discipline or as a separate practice.


Why, if at all, do you practice dedicated self protection skills?
All too often, people believe that someone has to have a high rank in martial arts to teach self defense. In fact, this is not true and could be in the opposite. I met many teachers of martial arts, attempting to "teach" self defense, but did not fully understand the concept. As they were in the mindset of their physical practices/methods WERE all that was needed.

I was once like that, until one of my instructors told me in order to teach self defense, goes beyond martial arts. Therefore, some decades ago, I started on a separate self defense quest. (Now days, more martial artists have also went on that quest)




If not, does your art give you what you need in terms of self protection?
Per above. I would think that as one went on a separate quest, they could bring it back to their "art" and incorporate a special curriculum




How does your art do this? What does self protection practice look like in your art?
You keep mentioning "art". If people practice a martial art, then they are tuned to that "art". I would tend to think that Self Defense is its "own art"



Do you practice awareness, verbal interaction and de-escalation in a modern context?
Of course These are more important than learning to defend against a punch


Just for starters....I practice martial arts, but do a dedicated self protection class that is full spectum verbal interaction, evasion, unarmed defense, edged weapons, concealed carry firearms, and professional applications for police and military. This is separate from my martial arts practice. Martial arts, with specific adaptations, is but a small part of the self protection package, so to speak.
As per my above




Oops! Also wanted to ask these questions:


Do you practice threat assessment/decision making/reasonable (and legal) force articulation in your self defense practice?
Yes



Do you engage in scenario practice?
Yes. Few examples: Even go as far as to "dress" likewise on the street. Example: wearing nice shoes, or a thick coat, etc. Even did practices on different types of terrain. A lot done "outside" of the class. (One such practice, LEO-police approached as they were called to investigate a brawl, which were us in practice. Under their instruction, we stopped and moved to another, distant location)


If you train with firearms (even firearms disarming), have you ever practiced shoot-no shoot decision making, and have you ever used Simunition marking cartridges or Airsoft or other projectile training in the context of the above?
No. I leave firearms practice with its own parimeters



I am asking to both get an idea of this wide and diverse collection of martial artists view on self protection, their experience and interest with dedicated self protection training, and at what levels they have and would be interested in training.


This is how I started so many decades ago;

I had to "Learn" before teaching:

I started to read-study about rape, serial killers, and murders

I managed through a friend, meet a psychiatrist in the criminal field.

Then, I started to attend(not teach) a rape seminars (by special invite-observer, through that psychiatrist)

Then, I became friends with a few LEO, and managed to attend (not teach) few of their seminars by invite-observer

Went back to one of my former martial art teachers, and we created a separate curriculum
Few examples:
For knife, we used a big red marker. People try harder to dodge from getting marked verses a rubber knife
For gun, there wasn't airsoft back then, we used a water pistol. If you got wet, you got shot

All of this took about-15-20 years

As for firearms:
The LEOs I come to associate with, do not "waste" too much time practicing firearm disarming. They practice more with their firearms and stun guns. In fact, "hand to hand" combat is limited to subdue, rather than "fight"

Last, I have, over those decades, tried to explain to people, esp martial artists, that martial arts (in a whole setting) is not needed upon self defense.

That, myself coming from a extensive family on both sides, many have survived defense, without being or training in martial arts

[Hissho]

Chris and Tony -

Cops kinda don't count, you get most of it on the job, and no modern training curriculum is complete - or legally defensible - without going through the decison makers and stress scenarios.

Richard -

Yes, that is the kind of thing I am talking about.

Other than wearing street clothes, practicing out of doors, and using a marker - I am more interested in how you would conduct the training. How do you simulate self defense encounters in your training?

What amount of verbal de-escalation do you make use of in training? What are the basic teachings of verbal threat management?

Do self defense encounters in your practice always get physical? What is the balance between encounters that get physical and those that do not?

How do you introduce initiative practices, decision making, and "go -no go" elements in practice, or do you basically have two people squaring off, knowing it is going to be a self defense encounter, and one attackers the other while the other defends?

[Joseph Svinth]

Kit --

I recall attending a seminar with a Bulletman. As part of his spiel, he started saying things that would be considered rude if said in daily conversation. When I started retorting in kind, he got annoyed. I have no idea why, because he himself had said, "I'm attacking you, do what you normally do." Which is what I thought I was doing -- I was evading his physical attacks while riffing off his lines, same as I do in any other setting.

In other words, rather than doing verbal judo, I, like Bulletman, was engaging in trash-talking. My theory is that if they're already throwing fists, it's a little late for verbal judo.

The goal of trash-talking is to make the other fellow break down in tears, have all his friends start laughing at (not with) him, or provoke him into saying or doing something stupid. Trash-talking is not a very nice game, but then, few games really are that nice. Except maybe boxing. Biddle always did say that one should box as if Christ were the referee.

I can't recall many martial art classes that even mentioned trash-talking. Most instructors wanted you to pretend that you were respectful and all that. Basketball and football, on the other hand, seem to develop trash-talking skills as part of the standard curriculum.

Trash-talking is said to be inappropriate in a sporting context. And in the business setting, management definitely frowns on the use of trash-talk. That would imply that trash-talking is an entirely appropriate skill in which to train, if only to learn how management prefers you NOT to react.

[Richard Scardina]

Other than wearing street clothes, practicing out of doors, and using a marker - I am more interested in how you would conduct the training. How do you simulate self defense encounters in your training?
For the most part, we have not performed any "role playing" in the classroom. We found this DOES NOT "stimulate" the responses we look for. I usually, (near the end of the curriculum), have a stranger approach a student in a controlled environment. I know many people owning business establishments (by their permission) which I have a student approached by a stranger of different calibers. (Different business-different strangers-male and female) I use business establishments mainly because, it confines the student to react appropriately. Other areas, like a parking lot, sometimes has the student either react too slow or too fast. Too slow, as they are in a state of surreal bliss. Too fast, as they are eager to perform. Most self defense is not in a "dark alley", as a majority of people have common sense not to be there in the first place


What amount of verbal de-escalation do you make use of in training? What are the basic teachings of verbal threat management?verbal threat management
Threat management depends on the situation as it "may" unfold. Remaining calm (per not getting upset), listen attentively, maintain eye contact-but not stare, (in some cases, do not make a constant direct eye contact-but focus the eyes on something, likewise something else caught the attention-but remain alert). Keep the voice medium (too low shows weakness likewise to prey-certain assailants will attack), too high-excited-strong, causes the assailant to attack with something to prove). Be patient, respectful, and courteous. Try to change the subject, but beware of signs of the assailant to resist. Make the assailant feel in control, but maintain a vigilance. Assertiveness is a key word, but like anything too much, or too little can be a disaster



Do self defense encounters in your practice always get physical? What is the balance between encounters that get physical and those that do not?
The level and situation of threats vary from a quick bump at the register, parking lot, or a nasty call, or even someone at the workplace. The understanding that a attacker-assailant does not always "look the part". We view the outcome if there was not a physical resort, as the most successful.


How do you introduce initiative practices, decision making, and "go -no go" elements in practice, or do you basically have two people squaring off, knowing it is going to be a self defense encounter, and one attackers the other while the other defends?---NO
Per all above. But to add, having a LEO and sometimes a attorney come in as guests to discuss and aid in the importance of legal issues and/or legal ramifications. A series of discussions has to be done in order to teach the areas of self defense within legal parameters.

It takes two to "Trash Talk"

I can rant on and on, but too many words are not enough than a actual curriculum. In other words, I can only state in brief

Now your turn, quid pro quo, answer or comment on your own questions.......

[Hissho]

Now your turn, quid pro quo, answer or comment on your own questions.......

The bold, and large red letters comes across as aggressive and yelling in postings. The red as angry. Please ask nicely next time. ;)

You can get an idea of what we do at my blog:

www.northwestcqc.wordpress.com

I am a police supervisor and use of force trainer and teach a small private group. I've taught cops, citizens, and military full spectrum self protection and officer survival force concepts for nearly two decades. I am familiar with, been involved in, responded to, and investigated everything from simple street confrontations to deadly force encounters. And I have found the assessment and threat management aspects, force on force simulations, and scenario based training to be the most effective kinds of training.


Sounds like you have a good handle on self defense training - when you say strangers, do you mean unknown people, but the students and strangers are all "in" on the training?

How does scenario training NOT stimulate the responses you are looking for? I ask this because in the law enforcement and self defense communities this is the primary way of including stress inoculation in training.

Joe

I would disagree. The sportive arena is the ONLY place trash talking is appropriate.

A great deal of street culture and resultant altercations surrounds disrespect. Trash talking will only buy you more problems. Trash talking might get you a fight that would not have happened had trash talk not been interjected.

Most middle class folks taking self defense courses are also not going to be well versed in street vernacular, nor in the "rituals" that surround such talking. Using trash talk inappropriately or awkwardly will only bolster a potential assailant's confidence. In addition, since most are also not very comfortable with confrontation, attempting to be verbally agile while under the stress of impending assault is simply too much going on for some to maintain composure.

As well, you want to avoid too much interaction with a potential assailant. A tit-for-tat, back and forth discussion involves a great deal of cogntive tasking and will by definition funnel situational awareness and create a greater lag-time in response to attack.\

Profanity may be a different matter, but folks have to be comfortable with that as well. If used, it should not be personally directed. It can be used under certain circumstances. Its a debatable point.

Now training with a role player/partner that IS trash talking is a necessity. Amazing how much it throws people off their game in a formal training environment.

[No1'sShowMonkey]

Do you practice threat assessment/decision making/reasonable (and legal) force articulation in your self defense practice?

Yes and no. We will have periodic breaks in training and analyze how a given position is well suited for breaking contact or for ending the fight in a terminal kind of way, but there hasn't been a lot of training in the nitty gritty of use-of-force and legality. A buddy of mine who is a cop shows up, I should ask him to talk some about that next time.

Do you engage in scenario practice?

Yes. The initial training is just having one of us be the belligerent, role-playing being aggressive in some kind of circumstance. Each person makes it up. Sometimes they act drunk and sad, then suddenly become violent. Other times, they are hopped up, bouncing around, and very obviously aggressive. Other times, the scenario involves an imaginary girlfriend, a dispute over some imaginary spilled beer, or some other offense. Point is, the attacker controls when, and if, things become violent.

If not, does your art give you what you need in terms of self protection?

Hard to say. I have had two women I've worked with that went abroad tell me that they deployed their skills to get free from dangerous situations. One was being grabbed and dragged to a taxi, whereupon she broke the grip and ran like the dickens. The other just extracted herself because she saw things starting to get really aggressive and got out before anything went sour.

I was really happy about both of those. Two good outcomes from what could have been really terrible situations.

How does your art do this? What does self protection practice look like in your art?

Even a brief stint in Koryu feels like the blinders getting removed. There is absolutely no playing around, no waste in any of those old kata. At this point, though, I am the bastard-son-of-bastard-son-of a mostly judo-esque background, so who the hell really knows who is responsible for what. I guess I just hope it works.

Do you practice awareness, verbal interaction and de-escalation in a modern context?

Yes. Awareness is one of the biggies. We train to increase basic awareness. This can be by trying to take a quick scan over a room to determine who has a relationship with whom. Or, learning to notice the kinds of clothing which allow for concealed carry, or the imprint of a concealed firearm. Who has a folder in their pocket, etc. Verbally, we work on staying calm and talking through with our role-playing opponents, and sometimes the attacker decides not to attack. Whether through limited bargaining ('hey, brother, let me buy you a beer.') or subject changing ('Do you know how to find this [really easy to find place]?'), etc.

[Hissho]

Excellent Chris.

Do you incorporate training where verbal de-escalation works and they don't turn out as fights? Seems like you have a good handle on things as well.

[No1'sShowMonkey]

Sometimes the aggressor-defender scenarios end without the aggressor attacking. Primarily, we work defending from the initial onslaught. The main point here being able to recognize combative, aggressive behavior and to be ready when things tip over into violence. Having a given stimulus--their eyes go wide, hands ball into fists, etc.--communicate 'get ready' is an important part of this.

[Richard Scardina]

The bold, and large red letters comes across as aggressive and yelling in postings. The red as angry. Please ask nicely next time. ;)

You can get an idea of what we do at my blog:

www.northwestcqc.wordpress.com

I am a police supervisor and use of force trainer and teach a small private group. I've taught cops, citizens, and military full spectrum self protection and officer survival force concepts for nearly two decades. I am familiar with, been involved in, responded to, and investigated everything from simple street confrontations to deadly force encounters. And I have found the assessment and threat management aspects, force on force simulations, and scenario based training to be the most effective kinds of training.


Sounds like you have a good handle on self defense training - when you say strangers, do you mean unknown people, but the students and strangers are all "in" on the training?

How does scenario training NOT stimulate the responses you are looking for? I ask this because in the law enforcement and self defense communities this is the primary way of including stress inoculation in training.



Apology
The red bold text was for emphasis. The other colors weren't working (Therefore, I will leave out color and larger text sizes)

Strangers...unknown to student. A scant few times someone/mediator had to "jump in"

Brief examples:

Stranger A, Scenario A a rude customer in a restaurant tries to entice student

Stranger B, Scenario B a rude customer in a bar tries to entice student

Stranger C, Scenario B another rude customer in a bar tries to mildly assault-push student

Stranger D, Scenario C, in a office screaming. People acting a part of scared workers-student has to react

Stranger E, Scenario D a punk in a parking lot asks the student "what's he looking at", and entices student

Stranger F, Scenario E or F a assailant with knife/gun approaches student

I like, in coy fashion, disarming a CCW student before sending them in

All strangers/scenarios are done on timely intervals

The preparation takes great effort

"Pre-rehearsed Scenario" training in a classroom vaccum does not stimulate the brain in the same manner

"Knowing" someone is "acting" is far different that believing that it is truly unfolding

This part of the curriculum is at the very end

Try the stranger approach as I suggest...you'd be surprised of the reactions

Have safety measures at the ready

As a police officer, you will be one to attend my class (as well as psychologist/attorney-etc)

I feel that other professionals in my class help students with freedoms to ask questions whereas they might have had reservations.

I also feel, that NOT ONE person can conduct a concise self defense curriculum without additional outside input from these other areas-fields.

As for CCW, not everyone will carry nor have the desire to even own a firearm.

Apart from that, many CCW does not touch on mentality issues. Like can someone "really squeeze the trigger in defense"
(I reckon hunters may have that ability a little better than the average Joe who goes plinkering paper targets)

Working as a problem teen mentor in what we call "projects", along with family owning a bar, running other bars over time, and a city-area where drinking never stops, I, too am familiar with, been involved in, responded to, and observed from simple street confrontations to deadly force encounters. (Guns pointing at you, knives opening/or guns shooting at you, makes you think afterwards) And I AGREE assessment and threat management aspects, force on force simulations, and scenario based (to a DEGREE-EXCEPTION) training to be the most effective kinds of training. (SORRY TO PASTE YOUR WORDING)

People feel that society is now on a upsurge of gunmen on rampages, in fact, this has been happening since the 60's. The problem is in the way the media now covers it all making it upscaled

I liked your blog, but I have seen quite a few along the same lines

I am glad that some of these blogs, such as yours, may get a strong hold and cast out the "Martial Art Defense Experts" against a opponent with a "stiff arm" (straight punch that freezes), or a opponent that does not move while the "Martial Art Defense Expert" does a series of nifty moves with the opponent's body unmoving to the strikes or unchallenged in some reflexive way

(Caps are not shouting-for emphasis)

On another note, what laws in place for CCW in one "State" does not apply "exactly" in another

My question to you, is what of a business establishment has a "No Firearm" sign, apart from a LEO, what legal grounds does a "Common CCW person have?

[Joseph Svinth]

Kit --

Ritual insult is indeed specific to a subculture. There is a vast literature on this subject, actually. (Look up "Playing the dozens".) But I don't think many self-defense classes or books provide much insight into this topic, other than to advise that attackers may use vulgar or graphic language. (Well, duh.)

Sports, on the other hand, may provide some useful stress inoculation. Babe Didrickson Zaharias once said that she liked golf because it was the only game she'd played where the ball didn't move, nobody tried to hit you, and nobody called you bad names.

[Richard Scardina]

Excellent Chris.

Do you incorporate training where verbal de-escalation works and they don't turn out as fights? Seems like you have a good handle on things as well.

As per in my earlier post-

*We view the outcome if there was not a physical resort, as the most successful.

[Carina Reinhardt]

Hello Kit,

Just want to share a different point of view. I'm not very good in english and my vocabulary is therefore limited. I also have non experience in fighting, just 10 years Aikido and I believe that aggresivity creates more of the same. I am always interested in the hidden motives of the aggresivity of people.
"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."
says Takahashi Shihan in his shared post "What you set in stone" http://www.aikidoacademyusa.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=450

A good example for my idea of self protection is perhaps the famous story "A soft answer" by Terry Dobson http://easternhealingarts.com/Articles/softanswer.html

Maybe we cannot always apply these, but we can try and if we see that it would be too dangerous, the best is to get out of there at fast as possible.

[Richard Scardina]

Hello Kit,

Just want to share a different point of view. I'm not very good in english and my vocabulary is therefore limited. I also have non experience in fighting, just 10 years Aikido and I believe that aggresivity creates more of the same. I am always interested in the hidden motives of the aggresivity of people.
"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."
says Takahashi Shihan in his shared post "What you set in stone" http://www.aikidoacademyusa.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=450
The parable you mentioned is more about "forgiveness" than protection or defense. People who are looking to do one bodily harm on a grand level do so because THEY WANT TO




A good example for my idea of self protection is perhaps the famous story "A soft answer" by Terry Dobson http://easternhealingarts.com/Articles/softanswer.html

Maybe we cannot always apply these, but we can try and if we see that it would be too dangerous, the best is to get out of there at fast as possible.
This parable is more in likeness to de-escalation or prevention, which are paramount

[Carina Reinhardt]

The parable you mentioned is more about "forgiveness" than protection or defense. People who are looking to do one bodily harm on a grand level do so because THEY WANT TO


Why do they want to?, what was the background of this poor people, had anybody time for them in their whole life?Are they searching the attention of others, the attention they never had before and that's why they took the wrong way?


This parable is more in likeness to de-escalation or prevention, which are paramount

Ok maybe, the drunk did not harm anybody yet, but that's it we have to react in the right way, fast and right for self protection

[Hissho]

Kit --

Ritual insult is indeed specific to a subculture. There is a vast literature on this subject, actually. (Look up "Playing the dozens".) But I don't think many self-defense classes or books provide much insight into this topic, other than to advise that attackers may use vulgar or graphic language. (Well, duh.)

Sports, on the other hand, may provide some useful stress inoculation. Babe Didrickson Zaharias once said that she liked golf because it was the only game she'd played where the ball didn't move, nobody tried to hit you, and nobody called you bad names.

Joe

Unfortunately they are different realms. The sports trash talk might work for a "dueling" type violent encounter but it is altogether a different thing from a violent assault or pre-attack behaviors. The TYPE of stress inoculation we do is important, its not simply stress inoculation alone.

Better self defense courses will have not only the name calling, etc. (a different kind of situation, and sometimes that kind of outburst is an indicator that no actual physical violence is likely...) but more subtle verbal and positional intercourse as a way to get closer to a subject or intimidate. The whole spectrum can be included in training.

In my experience cops do much better with the verbal and threat cue parts of training, not as good at the physicals (compared to a dedicated self defense training group). Civilians on the other hand have a great number of questions about these areas, as well as decision making, carrying and using weapons, etc. but are more skillful physically because that is what they practice, often to the exclusion of the former material.

[Hissho]

Try the stranger approach as I suggest...you'd be surprised of the reactions

Have safety measures at the ready

People feel that society is now on a upsurge of gunmen on rampages, in fact, this has been happening since the 60's. The problem is in the way the media now covers it all making it upscaled





My question to you, is what of a business establishment has a "No Firearm" sign, apart from a LEO, what legal grounds does a "Common CCW person have?

Richard

We agree on some things, on others my experience might not be the same as yours.

I'll not be trying the stranger approach. This kind of thing is indefensible if something goes wrong. Its not very likely anything will, but if it does you own it. My personal opinion - of that kind of training, not of you personally - is that it is ill advised and not in keeping with best practices in the training community. If it works for you, I hope it continues to do so.

Armed rampages have been going on far longer than that. And people are correct in the assessment that there is an upsurge. There is. What is interesting is that it coincides with a down trending in overall violent crime.

Not exactly sure what you are asking in terms of the No Firearms sign....do you mean legal grounds for using a firearm in self defense or simply carrying one in the establishment?

[Hissho]

Carina

I admire your compassion.

I'd recommend you read The Gift of Fear by Gavin Debecker, and The Sociopath Next Door by Martha Stout. The thoughts, feelings, and motivations you have are not those of others. Compassion can be its own form of arrogance when we think we know what other people are "really" thinking, or what they "really want deep down."

Many, many people will react positively to kindness. Some - those more likely to victimize others - see it as an opportunity to take advantage of the very person showing kindness.

It really doesn't matter how they got that way if you are the next victim.

If philosophically you believe in an extreme form of "turn the other cheek" and will allow yourself to be victimized as an object lesson to the victimizer, that is one form of compassion, I guess. It is not one I choose.

I like the Dobson story.

[Carina Reinhardt]

Hi Kit,

It is not so that I turn the other cheek and I'm rather realistic than compassionate. But I always remember when my eldest son got in high school, there were some 14-16 years old boys who did what they liked, terrorizing weak children and teacher, the principal called the parents of these boys, but they never appeard, the children were left to their own, they did all the bad things to get the attention of their parents, I think that is the beginning of a criminal. If these boys would get off the street and maybe learning martial arts, football, basket or any other sport in a team there would be still hope for them, but otherwise:mad:

[Hissho]

Carina

I see, I understand now. What you are talking about is beyond the scope of the moment you are threatened, in a confrontation, or being assaulted by one of those boys....you shouldn't be thinking about what his parents never gave him. You should be concerned about your personal welfare, and your legal standing to defend yourself.

By no means do I mean getting aggressive. I mean defending yourself assertively and in a reasonable fashion.

[Carina Reinhardt]

Kit,
First of all I would avoid lonely places or places where I could encounter those boys, in case I'd have to confront them I'd try to talk to them, give them the money, if they want that, and if necessary apply what I learned in aikido, tricks of self defence our sensei teaches us. It always depends of the attack, the moment, many things, but the most import is to keep calm.

I think we could avoid a lot of violence through good education and take care of homeless children. There should be more places where they could take refuge and where they still had a chance to choose the right path.

[Hissho]

Kit,
First of all I would avoid lonely places or places where I could encounter those boys, in case I'd have to confront them I'd try to talk to them, give them the money, if they want that, and if necessary apply what I learned in aikido, tricks of self defence our sensei teaches us. It always depends of the attack, the moment, many things, but the most import is to keep calm.

I think we could avoid a lot of violence through good education and take care of homeless children. There should be more places where they could take refuge and where they still had a chance to choose the right path.

Maybe. Some people are just sociopaths and no amount of healthy home or kindness will change them. Some people will only take advantage of your talking to them.

Taking care of the homeless children is probably less critical than dealing with children being made violent in their own homes, by their own caregivers.

[Carina Reinhardt]

Kit
I understand that you have more experience in these things, but we should never give up, there is always hope. I don't think so many really are sociopaths. Every one should have a chance and more than one before we condemn him. And reformatories are not the best places to help teenagers to find the right path.

We should be grateful for our healthy home and the possibility of education we had, we are really privileged.

[Richard Scardina]

Richard

We agree on some things, on others my experience might not be the same as yours.

I'll not be trying the stranger approach. This kind of thing is indefensible if something goes wrong. Its not very likely anything will, but if it does you own it. My personal opinion - of that kind of training, not of you personally - is that it is ill advised and not in keeping with best practices in the training community. If it works for you, I hope it continues to do so.

Armed rampages have been going on far longer than that. And people are correct in the assessment that there is an upsurge. There is. What is interesting is that it coincides with a down trending in overall violent crime.

Not exactly sure what you are asking in terms of the No Firearms sign....do you mean legal grounds for using a firearm in self defense or simply carrying one in the establishment?

The stranger thing is not done in the beginning, it is done at the end. If something goes wrong in the classroom, or if what you taught in the classroom did not apply in the outside, you "own that too". (Example, I knew two women who had studied a RBSD and the role playing. After sometime of their satisfactory training, upon being out, they were approached. One froze, the other tried to fight off the assailants. Basically, they told me the "role playing" in their RBSD was not real enough") We have the situation well under control. The strangers-actors are usually martial artists or skilled students from long previous. Think of it as military experience. You don't know and/or cannot be fully prepared in a "controlled setting"

That all said, I am not completely "dismissing role playing" (We do it midway of the curriculum)



I browsed your blog and there was a linked to vid of knife defenses.

If it is your vid/class, there is some commentary/questions I would like to address

And no, per your article; "A Picture is Worth a Thousand Posts", is not about scrutiny as much as about getting the appropriate feedback...at least from my curious position.

The No Firearms sign is about carrying one in said establishment

[Richard Scardina]

Kit
I understand that you have more experience in these things, but we should never give up, there is always hope. I don't think so many really are sociopaths. Every one should sociopathsand more than one before we condemn him. And reformatories are not the best places to help teenagers to find the right path.

We should be grateful for our healthy home and the possibility of education we had, we are really privileged.

Hi Carina,

If your lifestyle is about being "sheltered" from violence, then kudos to you for living this way

You speak of sociopaths, having a chance, etc. I have dealt with many "problem youths". In fact, I have taught martial arts for FREE to these youths, especially those without the financial means.

A scant few had taken advantage of that "chance". Others, pulled away and were lured by the violence-because they wanted to


That said, people are going to be aggressive, uncouth, etc., because they want to. Many people upon maturity, are well aware of right from wrong, but they simply "don't care". It could be said this may be caused by a poor family environment, peers, or even the surrounding culture environment

In analogy; I know some people who are "anti-gun"., right up til the time they wished they had one.

Realising that people are going to be "out" to hurt you, is part of the process of knowing to seek out whatever preparation you can.

Think of it as auto insurance. You do not get insurance thinking you will not have a accident, you get it if/when you do get into one.

[Carina Reinhardt]

You speak of sociopaths, having a chance, etc. I have dealt with many "problem youths". In fact, I have taught martial arts for FREE to these youths, especially those without the financial means.
.

Richard,
I just want to clarify one point, I wanted to say, there are not so many real sociopaths.
And Kudos to you for that free martial classes, that is great !

I know that not everybody wants help, and there are really bad people who just want to hurt.

Fortunately I live in a small island where the biggest problem is GBV. And in Spain firearms are not allowed, just with a permission for hunting.

[Richard Scardina]

Richard,
I just want to clarify one point, I wanted to say, there are not so many real sociopaths.
And Kudos to you for that free martial classes, that is great !

I know that not everybody wants help, and there are really bad people who just want to hurt.

Fortunately I live in a small island where the biggest problem is GBV. And in Spain firearms are not allowed, just with a permission for hunting.

GBV?


My father (widow for 9 yrs) has traveled the world drinking fine wines. He was surprised many years ago on a visit, that Spain had some great tasting

[Carina Reinhardt]

GBV?
I looked in the translator and it is the translation for violencia de géneros


My father (widow for 9 yrs) has traveled the world drinking fine wines. He was surprised many years ago on a visit, that Spain had some great tasting

Yes, there are great wines in Spain mainland, and recently also in the Canary Island, in Lanzarote they have a very good and known white wine. The first wine cellar there
http://www.elgrifo.com/

[Hissho]

Mod - Chris : ) - I wonder if splitting Carina's posts and that conversation off into a separate thread - maybe "Assailant Motivations" or something or other, might avoid further thread drift - worthy discussion, its just more sociological than about conducting training.

I may have misunderstood you Richard. I'll clarify:

Persons who are strangers to a STUDENT, but not to the instructor, and who are known and been vetted by the latter, are very good for training.

I would not use a business, where OTHER strangers who are not involved in the training scenario are at all involved or potentially could interject. I would strongly advise against this, and advise students whose instructors were doing this to politely decline such training.

Now the closed venue with all involved being part of the training is great for added realism.


I confess I am still not following what you are getting at with "legal grounds" with the no firearms signs. A business owner has a right to ban firearms in his own establishment, and to kick you out if you are ignoring his rules.

[Kendoguy9]

Hey Kit,

I aim to please so I'll see what I can do. I agree itmight be best split up. I just got a new modem I have to hook up because it is a pain to try to do stuff on a phone. Once I'm back up I'll take care of it.

Cheers,
Chris

[Richard Scardina]

I looked in the translator and it is the translation for violencia de géneros
IStill dont know??????




Yes, there are great wines in Spain mainland, and recently also in the Canary Island, in Lanzarote they have a very good and known white wine. The first wine cellar there
http://www.elgrifo.com/
I will ask him if he is familiar with this brand

[Richard Scardina]

Mod - Chris : ) - I wonder if splitting Carina's posts and that conversation off into a separate thread - maybe "Assailant Motivations" or something or other, might avoid further thread drift - worthy discussion, its just more sociological than about conducting training.

I may have misunderstood you Richard. I'll clarify:

Persons who are strangers to a STUDENT, but not to the instructor, and who are known and been vetted by the latter, are very good for training.

I would not use a business, where OTHER strangers who are not involved in the training scenario are at all involved or potentially could interject. I would strongly advise against this, and advise students whose instructors were doing this to politely decline such training.

Now the closed venue with all involved being part of the training is great for added realism.


I confess I am still not following what you are getting at with "legal grounds" with the no firearms signs. A business owner has a right to ban firearms in his own establishment, and to kick you out if you are ignoring his rules.

Other strangers are NOT involved. We get permission and sign a release for the owner(s)

(BOLD) CORRECT



EXACTLY. Especially if they have a sign posted. I know of a few CCW citizens who insist in "thinking" they still are in the "right" to carry on the premise when being "instructed" not to. The only persons I know, which by legal "right" to carry their firearm "almost" anywhere are LEOs

[Carina Reinhardt]

IStill dont know??????

Gender-based Violence

[Carina Reinhardt]

Mod - Chris : ) - I wonder if splitting Carina's posts and that conversation off into a separate thread - maybe "Assailant Motivations" or something or other, might avoid further thread drift - worthy discussion, its just more sociological than about conducting training.


sorry to give Mod - Chris more work, I thought you were talking about Self protection

[Hissho]

sorry to give Mod - Chris more work, I thought you were talking about Self protection

We are.

You are not talking about training for self protection but rather violence, causes thereof, violentization, etc. That is a different subject and I am sure you see the difference. Not that it is not a worthy discussion.

Its just that it is worthy of its own thread.

[Carina Reinhardt]

We are.

You are not talking about training for self protection but rather violence, causes thereof, violentization, etc. That is a different subject and I am sure you see the difference. Not that it is not a worthy discussion.

Its just that it is worthy of its own thread.


Hi Kit,

I think we just see the things in different forms.

You are talking about self protection in a professional way and about conducting training.

Of course I never trained as a professional, but I train in my Aikido dojo, awareness, mindfulness, fast reaction, our teacher is giving us always exercises to train a strong posture, to become self-confident and I also did a few courses of aikibudo with the trainer of the Galician police, but I sure did not the professional training of self protection you are explaining.

I wanted to explain things from a wider point of view, maybe my words are not enough to explain my thoughts.

The phrase I shared by Takahashi Shihan was because of the phrase and not because of his article what is actually about forgiveness.

"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."

The most important thing to train is to stay calm and reflect on the possibilities, this in tenths of seconds and think that the answer you will get depends on how your approach is, always .

I also shared the story of Terry Dobson, how would you have acted?, I would have opted if possible by the option of the little old Japanese, do you believe that this man was prepared for self protection ? I would like to train that, handle things in that form, not only control the situation, but convert the agressor in a thinking man again.
(But maybe this solution would not be possible in your country, if the drunk has a firearm.)

We should not sort out people from the beginning, I agree there are very bad people who can not be reformed, but the vast majority is not, so why not trying to train the lesson of the little old Japanese.

I think the psychological factor is one of the most important in self protección, awareness, verbal interaction and de-escalation are good, but the most important to train is to remain calm, self confident and if possible kind.

If you still want to split my part of the thread, sorry Mod- Chris, go ahead, and give it the name you like

[Hissho]

Yes Carina - we see things very differently, though the ultimate goal is the same.

[Richard Scardina]

Self Defense has to reflect the environment/culture of the person. Simply one has to concentrate the levels of defense per what the individual is need of per their environment/culture